XANTIA HDi RUNNING ROUGH

[Skull]

Oh dear, this is beginning to look expensive!!

Or a FREE CAR

[Huskyxantia]

The engine sounds like it's timing is slightly out. These have a turbo on the rear of the engine dont they ? Maybe thats gone ? If the injectors are ok then maybe soem sort of a timing issue, this is a theory, fuel pump timing to advanced , the engine timing slightly behind , to much fuel , more smoke unburnt fuel , engine miss fires , hope this make sense. It a real nice looking car by the way.

[Skull]

Cheers Huskyxantia

The timing had jumped a tooth (see above ), but drove fine onto the driveway, replaced a core plug on the cylinder head and hasn't been running right since, despite re-timing the camshaft.

The fuel pump isn't timed on the HDi and the engine won't start unless the fuel pressure is suitable so I've ruled a faulty pump out.

The above videos are of the engine running with the original fuel injectors re-fitted despite failing their tests as per the results posted above.

[Skull]

Well I've opted to replace No.1 Fuel Injector @ a cost of £180 new/exchange basis

My thinking is the 'free car' didn't appeal and the result of the testing above on No.4 Fuel Injector is a borderline fail and with my lack of experience (injectors) combined with the smokey/poor running of the engine happening over-night I have a niggling feeling that it might not improve the rough running issue ...

If that doesn't improve the running then I will have to appeal for a Lexia session ...or the scrap yard

[Skull]

Skull's - new injector

New injector fitted to No.1 £180

Same symptoms - no improvement to the engine running or smoking

At a bit of a loss now

If that doesn't improve the running then I will have to appeal for a Lexia session ...or the scrap yard

[Huskyxantia]

You mentioned the core plug , was it the correct size ? I've had issues last March april time I couldn't source one without having to by a pack of 20 so went old school and used a 1p coin , then again core pkugs are a safety piece for frozen engines, not that we get winters like we did way back, running rough and smoking , everyone first thinks what's already been mentioned, if it was getting hot I'd say head going but yours seems not to show signs of a failing head gasket, I did hear a rumour diesel was going to be pushed to 15% organic oil but ive not seen it on any forecourt yet.

That turbo on the back of the engine if I recall isn't it connected to that long pipe that runs round the back of the engine , but saying that they hardly fail as they don't work like the front mounted type ... God I'm stumped I can feel how you feel . Wonder if there's a wire touching somewhere ?

[Skull]

Yes Huskyxantia I had trouble finding the correct part without buying a lifetime supply so opted for these Ford ones off Amazon:

CYLINDER HEAD CORE PLUG 25mm £6.29 (for two)

Amazon

I currently have 3 cars but the Xantia and Ford Ka (MAF ordered just waiting for the o-ring) are both sick with very similar problems - I would have suspected dodgy diesel but luckily I went to different fuel stations so I am really at a loss as to why the Xantia HDi isn't playing nicely.

Turbo is on the rear of engine, mounted with exhaust manifold but I believe all is good - just bizarre...

My guess

Spoiler: show

ECU

Mick and Jim are planning on a visit with a Lexia so hopefully I'll have some sort of diagnosis - I just hope I haven't missed anything too obvious

[Skull]

Mick and Jim arrived today after what must have been an early start for them and we promptly set about a full diagnosis session trying to discover the fault with my HDi.

Jim soon had his laptop out as Mick headed off on an errand for his Subaru …
Jim soon discovered that Lexia had found some engine errors:

Jim's - Lexia

^ If I remember rightly this one is showing initial faults found.
Also there was no record of the Fuel Pressure Sensor being responsible for cutting out the engine when suffering the hard stalls.
(My theory squashed)

Jim's - Live data

^ This shows the live data

We smoked the neighbours out more than a few times

We tried swapping a few injectors around again, we threw some theories about , meanwhile Mick returned with some expensive Subaru gearbox oil and we threw some more theories around over a brew

then swapped No.3 and No.4 Injectors around, tested the EGR valve system, checked air intake, disconnected No.4 injector plug to see if the lack of fuel injected would reduce the smoke output, threw some more theories around between ourselves …one of the neighbours came to join in but when viewing the scene he backed away quite quickly

Short story ….my brain has melted:

Jim’s theory:

Spoiler: show

Camshaft is still miss-timed slightly and suspects the woodruff key is damaged/sheared allowing the camshaft to rotate slightly even though the camshaft sprocket indicates the timing is correct.
Possibly No. 4 Exhaust Valve damaged

Mick’s theory:

Spoiler: show

No. 4 Inlet Valve Spring damaged resulting in unburnt fuel producing smoke due to incomplete combustion.
Possibly No.4 Exhaust Valve damaged.
ECU driver faulty

Skull’s theory:

Spoiler: show

but I'm glad it's not an obvious fault that I should have spotted

Greatly appreciate both your efforts today in trying to point me in the right direction.

It’s like a game of Cluedo at the moment - hopefully a dry day tomorrow will allow some more delving under the camshaft cover ….

I hope you managed to get to your breakers yard before dusk set in Mick. Have a good day at Beamish tomorrow or visit TRAINS if that’s more appealing due to the weather forecast….

[CitroJim]

Was really great to see you yesterday Gary and I do hope, between us, we've managed to narrow it down a bit

It surely is an odd one and defying of any real logic or concrete proof of what's going on exactly...

A diesel leak-down test would now be very beneficial. I've found a test kit can be obtained from the usual sources for surprisingly little money.

Typically:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/YUAN-Diesel-Co ... B07FLTBH6C

Do check it has an adaptor for a an RHZ 2.0 HDi engine though...

Also, with an oscilloscope, to check No.4 injector is being properly operated by the ECU.

Keep us all posted

[Rhothgar]

Enjoyed reading your thorough write-up together with test values. Some really good info in this thread especially the decoding without a Lexia video. Although it would be nice to see an actual video of this verified against a Lexia fault code.

I'll PM you the official factory diagnostics when I get a moment. I'll try and do that today. Official diagnostics aren't that illuminating but it is a logical process that is worth working through.

Hopefully your turbo solenoid values are wired correctly but that wouldn't cause rough idling from memory.

Woodruff key easy enough to verify. Still takes time though.

Let me know your RPO number so I can see if I have the correct wiring diagrams for yours. You can then workout if you might have shorted part of your ECU. You can then open that up as a last resort and trace back the earth pin to a semiconductor or whatever if you like. I've worked miracles on WarHorse as you no doubt know and managed to bother to keep it from dying.

[Skull]

Cheers Rothgar

BUILT (ORGA 8296 CJ) Tuesday 27 JUL 99
@ Rennes la Janais, France Assembly Line 1 380th car on the day.
REGISTERED 21 JUL 2000 (almost a year after build)

‘ElecTrickery’ really isn’t my thing but an accurate diagram would be appreciated.

[Stickyfinger]

I still think the --a couple of "sudden hard stops"---- are the key to the problems, especially with the missing core plug from the head and the belt jumping a tooth.

IMO/guess, an overheated head, pinching the cam/bearings resulting in a lock up/jumped belt with poss damage to the cam pulley/key etc. Do not know if it went so far as damaging a valve.....pull each injector and test compression before doing to much more work ??

[Skull]

I still think the --a couple of "sudden hard stops"---- are the key to the problems, especially with the missing core plug from the head and the belt jumping a tooth.

Now I know my theory of the wet Fuel Pressure Sensor causing the hard stalls has been ruled out by Jim’s Lexia session I really don’t know what else could have caused those

…. Do not know if it went so far as damaging a valve.....pull each injector and test compression before doing to much more work ??

Not confirmed yet stickyfinger, will probably have to invest in another compression tester (I only have a petrol one) …

My main confusion is it drove onto my driveway fine …changed a core plug…now runs rough even after re-timing the camshaft ….

[Rhothgar]

What is this talk about hard stalls?

If your car pulled onto the drive fine then a jumped tooth is unlikely. Perhaps more likely to shear a woodruff key but I would imagine that would take a lot of force.

If you think coolant has ended up on FPS then maybe that has shorted back too. I’ll dig the diagrams out so you can pore over them.

If I can do something today to help someone in some small way that will take my mind off the stress I am under having taken a bank to court. They’ve got me on the ropes over the legislation I have claimed they have breached so need to understand what other rights of action I have.

Been to the University of Nottingham library today to see if I can get hold of a certain book to no avail.

Might do a post on the Flame Pit to see if anyone has any relatives at uni at the moment that might be able to get me this book on an inter-Uni Loan.

[Rhothgar]

These are going to be your new friends from now on:-

https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/view ... hp?t=80504
https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/view ... hp?t=80505
https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/view ... hp?t=80506

They are the codes for the electrical components once I send you the diagrams.

It is so easy to go down rabbit holes and Jimbob has given you a direction. The solenoid codes may well be relevant. Have you messed around with any of the connectors to the two solenoids in the top left corner of the engine bay. Switching them around can cause issues. I did that once. In fact, I ended up having to buy a replacement on Amazon but I was getting an intermittent boost fault. Forget the code now.