XANTIA HDi RUNNING ROUGH

[Skull]

Without trawling through all the pages again, I guess that car still starts but with difficulty and running rough as noted by Jim and Mick on their visit. I assume it still takes now with difficulty.

Yes it still starts OK surprisingly ...just no power, idles rough and smokes heavily ...

[Rhothgar]

Without trawling through all the pages again, I guess that car still starts but with difficulty and running rough as noted by Jim and Mick on their visit. I assume it still takes now with difficulty.

Yes it still starts OK surprisingly ...just no power, idles rough and smokes heavily ...

PM sent.
Check out Fault Code 3, 4 and 14 would be my take on it.

14 obviously gives you the news you don't want but you definitely have another issue.

I would investigate 3 and probably test the engine speed sensor function. Presumably your fuel filter is in nice condition and not fallen apart. Worth checking I had that on Sylv's ZX once. Totally disintegrated!

If you have the 88 pin single connector ECU then the engine speed sensor is at pin 41 and 14. If standing at front of car looking back, pin 1 is bottom left and pin 88 is top right of the ECU. The sensor should have a resistance between 425 and 525 Ohms. Not entirely sure it could be the speed sensor. What would happen if one injector was down on flow is the ECU would try to compensate by injecting more on the next injector to fire and so on.

A complete failure would result in engine not starting even though it isn't listed in Fault Code 1.

This might be the reason why your engine hard stalled. The compression is likely NOTHING to do with the hard stalls. One way to find out is to not touch it and once compression is sorted then see if engine random cuts out still.

The brown double relay next to the ECU can wreak havoc and is difficult to diagnose especially if the fault is intermittent (as with any electric fault, intermittent faults are a brain melt!)

You've only got to look at some of posts on WarHorse and the fun I've had over the years. All self taught and still learning every day.

With how poor the wiring is from new on our cars, I generally always want to try and rule out high resistance in wiring first before condemning components because checking wiring is free. It takes time to learn but the basics of load testing DISCONNECTED wired is very worthwhile. That way there is no risk to the circuit and you can check each section of wire accordingly to find high resistance and/o breaks. When you understand circuits a bit more then you can test live but you've got to know what to expect where. I usually always play it safe and test DISCONNECTED. So I usually apply 12V from an external source to the disconnected wire and then apply a test lamp on the other end of the wire to see if an incandescent bulb will light. I use an H4 because I am mental and like to live dangerously. Although I do only apply it for less than second. You know if it lights or not. Just a bit dangerous because it still gets hot quickly!!! AGAIN. You would only test wires that are disconnected from the ECU and from the component itself so JUST the wire is being tested.

It's time consuming but very satisfying when you get a result and identify a piece of wire that is badly corroded internally (but you cannot see it) and then take hours to plumb a new one in or alternatively try to identify where the wire has gone crusty inside JUST by feel.

[Rhothgar]

Have a bedtime read of this:-

https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/view ... hp?t=83738

[CitroJim]

...just no power, idles rough and smokes heavily ...

I've known a few people in my long life who fit that description

[ekjdm14]

I'll openly admit to being one of them, Jim!

[CitroJim]

I'll openly admit to being one of them, Jim!

I don't think you fit that description at all Dan

[ekjdm14]

Currently I do, Jim! Been up most of the night with a poorly dog (projectile explosive poo to the face included, no extra charge for that, along with most of the bed & the hallway carpet!) so today I'm most definitely rough, idle and lacking power today & I've always smoked just a few more than is strictly recommended by the doctor (Not even Camels either).

On the plus side, Max the Cairn Terrier is feeling much better now!

[Skull]

Well sorry to hear about the dog being poorly ekjdm14 Hope for a quick recovery....

Meanwhile the HDi has yielded another clue ...It's close between Mick and Jim's diagnosis but Mick is looking like the closest ....

Took the Camshaft Cover off and discovered a broken No. 4 inlet cam follower Hiding in the corner with only one chunk missing and all the needles still in place.

Skull's - HDi CAMSHAFT

Retrieved with my magnet but no sign of the missing piece yet.

Skull's - HDi Follower (snapped)

Now I'm expecting to find some Valve or Piston damage on No. 4 Cylinder to account for that loss of compression, although the engine was running rough there was no mechanical noise to suggest this had taken place. Unburnt fuel getting into the cylinder so maybe inlet valve is bent - hopefully only a tiny bit

I've ordered a cheap endoscope for my iphone to see what I can see down the glow-plug / Fuel Injector holes....

Sorry it's taken so long to get here but this clue is only part of the story, remember it drove home fine, I believe even though these Cam-Followers are designed to fracture to minimise engine damage, there has to be some other damage to account for the lack of compression....

[mickthemaverick]

Some real information at last!! I can of course claim that the No 4 inlet cam follower is the device which makes the spring work, so the idea of the spring being 'broken' is not far off the mark from its cam follower being broken. Certainly closer than a cam sprocket fault so I might have to claim the win on that one!!

[Skull]

I’m not getting involved in that bun fight Mick ….oh wait I am very much involved

[Skull]

There's something nagging at the back of my mind...

When we ran the engine with the hose to the inlet manifold disconnected (i.e. manifold open to atmosphere) and the EGR active (EGR valve open) we could see smoke puff out of the inlet manifold.........

.........As I say, just a nagging thought and possibly pointing to valve damage/leakage...

There is also Jim's update as well which might explain the whisps of inlet smoke .... not that I'm getting involved

[mickthemaverick]

Indeed it might but original theories only score points in this competition without the benefit of additional knowledge from what we had at the time!!!

[Skull]

Harsh but fair

[Stickyfinger]

On my 2.1 XM there were broken cam followers....but the valves (at first) seemed fine...wrong !
A very very slight bend in two of them only showed up as the valves rotated a little bit at a time (which they normally do I am told) when the engine started/ran.....this caused them to lock up in the guides as the clearance closed up.....and yes it "chuffed" out of the manifold.....so the first attempt was a waste of time !!

A 2nd hand head was skimmed & combined with cam/springs etc from the original as that cheaper than a full rebuild of the "damaged" head which would of needed new guides/re-seated "primary combustion chambers" etc.

[Skull]

Cheers Alasdair

Did you just try followers first

We’re you down on compression as well