Xantia-Crankshaft pulley bolt 1 Newcastle Falcon 0

[NewcastleFalcon]

Head is off now-I see the dowel thing now I didnt exactly pull it out but the various bits of leverage I applied effectively achieved the same result.

Just for the record here is the head



The valve which failed the push down test is protruding very slightly.

[NewcastleFalcon]

This thread has been selected today the final day of the FCF Archives February Ferret 2023.

Thank goodness it has because it has a very serious loose end. The actual result was
Crankshaft Pulley Bolt 1, Newcastle Falcon 1.

So how can that be. Surely if the Falcon removed the Crankshaft Pulley Bolt it would be an obvious win for the Falcon. Yes Crankshaft Pulley Bolt netted first, but surely a brace from the Falcon would make the score
Crankshaft Pulley Bolt 1 Newcastle Falcon 2.

In the end though honours were even. The Crankshaft Pulley Bolt was never removed, but the Falcon got round it with a bit of penknife precision and a bit of lateral thinking. The problem was restated into "To replace the head, and subsequently fit a new timing belt, the bottom camshaft plastic cover needs to be removed"

The normal way would have required removing the Crankshaft Pulley bolt, and pulley. This was effectively preventing progress of the resurrection of the Xantia from the broken Camshaft. Never in the experience of Falcon "undoing of tight fastenings" had the scaffold pole and breaker bar before or since been defeated. This pulley bolt wasn't budging.

So a small precise incision in the lower cambelt plastic cover allowed the cover to be removed with the crankshaft pulley remaining intact, the pulley bolt remaining well and truly stuck, and very much in situ. Lower plastic cover removed and the timing belt could easily be replaced, and the job progressed and completed.

Horror upon horror from the purists...that plastic cover now will have a cut in it and all the dust and grime will make its way in and destroy the cambelt...er not really. How difficult is it to seal up a bit of plastic with some appropriate goo! Like I say worked for me, not recommended for everyone

The car was resurrected, and as the FCF February Ferret 2023 on Day 22 revealed, it enjoyed a "200,000 Not out" day to celebrate here viewtopic.php?p=746112#p746112

Final Score
Xantia-Crankshaft pulley bolt 1 Newcastle Falcon 1




Neil

[CitroJim]

It's amazing it never gave in to the starter motor trick Neil... I was going to say I've never known it fail but now I have!

And I never knew a surgical incision in the cambelt cover would allow it to be removed and the belt changed. Good tip if ever a crank bolt causes a problem..

I did know of a C5 X7 crank bolt that resisted all attempts until an industrial-strength rattle gun was brought in. It surrendered without a peep!

Often, the reason why long breaker bars fail is due to the difficulty in solidly locking the engine - there's often just enough 'give' in the transmission to absorb a lot of power applied to the bar if using the 5th gear and wheels on the deck with the handbrake on/wheels chocked method... With an automatic transmission, even more difficult...

The best answer these days is a battery rattle gun. Good quality ones are remarkable...

I wonder why yours was so tight? Maybe it was over-enthusiastic use of Loctite last time the belt was done?

I did once make a crank bolt unremovable... I welded it to the crank pulley as the car had a tendency to loosen the bolt all by itself however tight it was tightened - for reasons we could never fathom. It was on a near end-of-life 2.1TD...

[NewcastleFalcon]

Excellent contribution Jim! and you were of course one of the contributors to the saga back in 2010

The best answer these days is a battery rattle gun. Good quality ones are remarkable...

I think if I knew then what I know now, and had the equipment that I have now, I may well have been able to remove that bolt. I remarked before that in the thread Addo from Australia mentioned the price of a "rattle gun", and how things have changed.

I can assure avid readers, that the 18V Snap-On cordless rattler has plenty of poke. It'll crack damper bolts without a worry. Shame that at about USD$550 plus posting, I can't afford one!

I now have one for less than £50 from lidl (corded) which has an undoing torque of 500 NM. Probably would have made short work of undoing that bolt, or maybe more likely short work of shearing that bolt.

I think the fear of shearing the bolt after trying the methods suggested in the thread without success coloured my eventual approach. I noted the point about heavier duty 3/4 breaker bar and sockets with the pole may well have worked, but I never got the equipment together to try that. Again your point about applying the torque direct to the bolt rather than wasting it comes into play with the bending of the 1/2 inch breaker bar and the 3/4 inch kit would have been much better in that respect.

Regards Neil

[CitroJim]

Very spookily Neil, I was thinking about Addo whilst out running this morning, long before I saw this thead. It's been a while since we've heard from him and I wonder how he is...

[NewcastleFalcon]

Very spookily Neil, I was thinking about Addo whilst out running this morning, long before I saw this thead. It's been a while since we've heard from him and I wonder how he is...

Wonder what brought Addo to mind Jim I recall him as chipping in with some funny comments as well as knowing his stuff!
------------

I thought I had seen a recent thread which cautioned against using an impact wrench from some procedures for Crankshaft bolt removal. Maybe its a case of we know that you are going to use one, but if it shears we told you not to!

This is the thread viewtopic.php?p=682408#p682408
and relevant post is here

The crankshaft bolt was very tight due to threadlock, there's an official PSA caution against using an impact wrench in case the bolt twists and shears.

This link also cautions against an impact wrench..
http://replace-timing-belt.com/how-to-r ... i-2011-14/

Matt added this:

As described above, the toothed tool is to hold crankshaft whilst pulley bolt is undone (and official procedure is wind it out with torque wrench to avoid risk of shearing it! Head back tightening then out again if torque wrench clicks on the way out)

Neil

[mickthemaverick]

Back around the same time as the subject occurred my mate Dave and I were changing the auto box on a Vectra which had lost its will to move:

Own work

We encountered a similarly impossible bolt to remove but not the crankshaft bolt, a transmission to block bolt. It gave us huge irritation and we went through all the usual means available to us, including the weight of the car on the end of a scaffold pole to no avail. No amount of heating and cooling, hammering, swearing or wrenching brought us any satisfaction at all!!

Suddenly Dave had a brainwave and remembered a trick he had been taught by his uncle many years before. We immediately went down the pub and an hour or so later the problem was resolved!!! The bolt was still stuck but we didn't give a damn anymore!

For those who need completion of the story we ended up chain drilling holes all around the old transmission casing to free it from the bolt and then attacked the bolt with a hacksaw, drilled out the stud and retapped with an oversize bolt to fit the replacement unit!! We ended up with a healthy profit from that one as we had bought it as a non runner for £3.5k and got the replacement box for £250 and sold it for £5750!!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Back around the same time as the subject occurred my mate Dave and I were changing the auto box on a Vectra which had lost its will to move:...

Very familiar with the Vectra being my most travelled miles in car...Over 160,000! A similar Vintage and spec so I would think the job you did was on this box, known as an Aisin AF40-6 in GM circles but is the same Aisin TF-80SC also known as (AWF21, AM6, AW6A-EL)) . The same box as gibbo fitted in his quirkily named "On my Walk" thread, (one of the FCF's best threads), to his "in the field" discovery of a C5 without a gearbox, and its subsequent resurrection.

Gibbo's thread
viewtopic.php?p=536299#p536299

the Falcon Vectra 1,9CDti Elite

Neil

[CitroJim]

Suddenly Dave had a brainwave and remembered a trick he had been taught by his uncle many years before. We immediately went down the pub and an hour or so later the problem was resolved!!! The bolt was still stuck but we didn't give a damn anymore!

That's a great solution Mick!

Very spookily Neil, I was thinking about Addo whilst out running this morning, long before I saw this thead. It's been a while since we've heard from him and I wonder how he is...

Wonder what brought Addo to mind Jim I recall him as chipping in with some funny comments as well as knowing his stuff!

It's me Neil. I often have these thoughts... Only yesterday whilst out running I was thinking of an old friend who I'd not seen for ages, rounded a corner and there he was.

Running, and to a lesser extent whilst cycling, is when I do my best thinking and indeed when I have these, I don't know what they'd be called properly, insights of something about to happen... Premonition is not the right word as rarely are they bad things or thoughts... As I say, it's not at all uncommon. I've had dreams with the same outcome and in dreams I've solved loads of problems... I think there's a lot about how our minds work that we have no understanding of. I also have huge 'gut feelings' and I always go withy them... I can determine a person's character within seconds of a first meeting and I'm rarely wrong...

Sadly, this small ability I have does not work for lottery numbers

Enough of that, back on topic... Very interesting on the advice against using rattle guns...

Once, and this was when stripping a Mazda RX-8 Wankel engine with a view to rebuilding it - a subject worthy of a topic all of its own - I had to heat the nut on the end of the 'crank' (forget it's proper name now) to well beyond cherry red using oxy-acetylene before it would undo!

James (Hellrazor) I think you were with us on that occasion if I recall correctly...

[NewcastleFalcon]

. Only yesterday whilst out running I was thinking of an old friend who I'd not seen for ages, rounded a corner and there he was....


....Enough of that, back on topic... Very interesting on the advice against using rattle guns...

That bit of off-topicness is part of those random rewards I speak of which the forum comes up with in our deliberations.

I did start a thread here I called it

Familiarity Phenomenon and other unlikely co-incidences.
viewtopic.php?t=73189

Unfortunately as threadstarter and de facto head gardener, I have neglected to cultivate it which is undoubtedly required in the early days of a new thread if it is to ultimately turn into a familiar one that everyone knows about and can easily add too. This week alone there have been a few "Motty" very unlikely co-incidences reported in Micks Pub selections, and by his own admission "its been a spooky week!, and bits and pieces elsewhere on forum posts.

All it takes is a bit of a note on that thread, whether or not the title is precisely correct. I dont propose to garden it too closely myself, but it is there to mop up such things.

REgards Neil

[CitroJim]

I'll be looking at that thread Neil

[moizeau]

Once, and this was when stripping a Mazda RX-8 Wankel engine with a view to rebuilding it - a subject worthy of a topic all of its own - I had to heat the nut on the end of the 'crank' (forget it's proper name now) to well beyond cherry red using oxy-acetylene before it would undo!

At Norton it was called an eccentric shaft

[Hell Razor5543]

I remember that, Jim. Chris brought it over. It was about the size of a small beer keg, but when he used his high powered impact gun all that happened was the engine turned round!

[CitroJim]

Once, and this was when stripping a Mazda RX-8 Wankel engine with a view to rebuilding it - a subject worthy of a topic all of its own - I had to heat the nut on the end of the 'crank' (forget it's proper name now) to well beyond cherry red using oxy-acetylene before it would undo!

At Norton it was called an eccentric shaft

Thanks Pete, that's it

I remember that, Jim. Chris brought it over. It was about the size of a small beer keg, but when he used his high powered impact gun all that happened was the engine turned round!

I'd forgotten that bit James Did Chris spin round with it?