Xantia-Crankshaft pulley bolt 1 Newcastle Falcon 0

NewcastleFalcon · Post by **NewcastleFalcon** » 01 Jul 2010, 21:37

Despite a committed and energetic first half performance from me, with a long breaker bar and a scaffolding pole, the crankshaft pulley bolt refuses to slacken. Currently this has me stuck. I need to get round this somehow in order to rectify the aftermath of a broken cambelt.

Yes, the broken cambelt was entirely my own fault-ignoring the oil leak, and laterly ignoring the water pump leak, and personally driving 60,000 miles since I got the car without changing the belt. The observable damage done consists of a camshaft broken in about 3 or 4 places, together with breaking of all the caps.

I have a Xantia which I use for spares which has a perfectly good engine in it , but want to stop short if I can of a wholesale engine out of one car and into the other. I have removed the broken camshaft as a start, but need to get the crankshaft pulley bolt off in any circumstances to enable removal of the lower cambelt cover.

I would be grateful if any forum members have any tips for getting the bolt undone without shearing it off or if anyone has experienced similar problems and found a solution by cutting away the lower cambelt cover.

Thanks Neil

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 01 Jul 2010, 21:48

Ok

Firstly and improtantly: Is the crank pully slack at all??

If not, then your best bet if not already done get the engien to TDC and slip in a 6mm ALLEN KEY in the TDC Hole behind the starter!!

Then with a 22 or 23mm socket on extension bars, to a Bracker bar just outside of the front wing, you can then get the longest bar on it!!

You may find it could very well be over application of thread lock last time it was assembled and with the crank locked up should go...

I asked about the crank pully bacause if this has been knocking due to a slack bolt, it will have caused a serious problem with the crank bolt.. and may very well snap! BUT seriously, this only happens if the crank pully is loose!!

Regards
Paul

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 01 Jul 2010, 22:10

I'm not too sure an Allen key will stand holding the crank with a breaker
bar and scaffold tube! If the whole lot's coming apart anyway, get the
starter motor off and use a special tool to lock the flywheel in position
against the gearbox through the starter aperture:

Loads found on eBay or tidy factors.

For sure get the flywheel correctly in position pinning the flywheel with
a decent bolt/Allen key/bespoke pin though.

Andrew

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 01 Jul 2010, 22:15

Thats down to exactly how good and strong your keys are!!

I havent got any that are made of brass, Mine are extreamilly strong!! and Ive never had a problem yet dooing it that way..

Paul

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 01 Jul 2010, 22:27

This may help, although you've probably done it anyway.

I put a pile of bricks or wood under the end of the extension shaft from the socket. The pile is adjusted to give the end of the extension good support.

Push down on the breaker bar with the socket/shaft end firmly supported by the stack.

I used a shovel on the end of the breaker bar and kind of supported myself on a bracket in my gargae roof while I bounced up and down on the end of the blade end of the shovel.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 01 Jul 2010, 22:30

Just use a scaffold bar, or jack handle if its big enough...

Paul

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 01 Jul 2010, 22:45

i would rather swap the engine if the spare one is a known lot,

it will certainlybe cheaper if you own the spare engine,

regards malcolm

addo · Post by **addo** » 01 Jul 2010, 23:11

I'm curious.

Does nobody own, or have access to, a rattle gun at home DIY level? I've seen smallish compressors cheap enough in the UK, so had assumed that cheap impact guns were common, too.

Cheers, Adam.

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 01 Jul 2010, 23:22

I do addo.. I have yet to try it on anything major...

Newcastle, you could utilise the starter motor? that will give the bot a shock..

John

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 01 Jul 2010, 23:36

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... t-wrenches

No idea if it's up to the job mind! Guess this'd work mind:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... t-wrenches

Still need to lock the flywheel some shape first.

Andrew

NewcastleFalcon · Post by **NewcastleFalcon** » 02 Jul 2010, 00:19

Thanks for the replies so far.

The starter is off. The tool looks useful although I did manage to prevent the flywheel from movng with a big wrench and a long cold chisel.

I figure the crankshaft bolt must have been undone a few time in its life, I dont think the cambelt would have lasted 199,700 miles without replacement at least once! With the engine being out of action there is no chance to get it warmed up to aid dismantling. Would a quick blast of heat do anything with the loctite and make the job easier. The breaker bar itself with the scaffold tube on the end starts to bend on application of pressure. Not sure what the torque of the bolt is supposed to be with all these angle tightening requirements but I reckon similar force to what I have already applied would have removed a driveshaft retaining nut.

I am not very confident its going to come out. Heating the bolt till red hot
and then trying the scaffold tube and breaker bar may result in the bolt being more brittle and shearing off.

Any alternatives if it just doesn't come out?

Thanks Neil

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 02 Jul 2010, 07:54

Kev wrote
"I put a pile of bricks or wood under the end of the extension shaft from the socket."

i do similar but with a big axle stand, and get a freind to hold a leaver into the flywheel teeth,

never fails for me even when it appears the knukle bar is going to bend, just constant presure no jercking, as it is jercking that shears the end off the knukle bar off

regards malcolm

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 03 Jul 2010, 10:25

Air impact wrenches work well because they use a combination of shocking forces at the same time as the bolt is turned. If you can shock the bolt as well as turn it then it will come out easier.

This looks like an interesting tool:-

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... t-wrenches

I've never used one though and they're a bit expensive.

I do seem to remember seeing black impact ring spanners somewhere. They're got a ring on one end and the other end is flattened out for hitting with a hammer. They're fairly short in length. Ideally the spanner would have a hex (rather then bi-hex) design. You need to be careful though in case you break the bolt.

Is there any way you could get some turning force on the bolt whilst tapping the bolt head with a hammer at the same time? I wouldn't hammer the crankshaft too hard but you could tap it a bit. It's the same principle as those screwdrivers where the blade comes through the handle and you hit the end with a hammer whilst undoing the screw.

Paul

addo · Post by **addo** » 03 Jul 2010, 10:30

There is a tool that expands on the hammered wrench idea. It is a long shaft with safety collar (to prevent lump hammer meeting tool holding hand), that connects to a small crank with ½" drive peg.

It frees you to take massive swings from some distance off the fastener, with less than 2" gross clearance needed from the bolt head's underside. Not sure if it's ABV, Koken or Wurth who sell it.

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 03 Jul 2010, 11:13

Addo - the tool you're describing sounds similar to the one in my Machine Mart link. The Machine Mart one is a Laser 4590.

I wonder if you could make something similar. What you need is an impact socket with a short piece of 1/2 inch square rod bent at 90 degrees. Then hit the end of the rod with a hammer.

There's a plumber's tool (from B&Q etc) for removing radiator (vent) fittings that would almost do the job. It's bent at 90 degrees with (I think) a 10mm square end. 10mm is almost the same as 3/8 inch square drive. Maybe you could use that with a 3/8 to 1/2 inch adaptor.

Paul