207cc lumpy starting.

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Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

My wife's car has had lumpy starting and running, until it gets warmed up, for a while now. It is a 2008, 1.6 petrol VTI
There is a PO114 fault code that reoccurs (it is the only fault code) and the "depollution.." warning. I've change the camshaft sensors and swapped them over and it is always Bank 2. Also the associated oil valves. Cleaned and swapped and renewed spark plugs and air filter and cleaned the air flow butter fly.

However the lumpy running has got noticable worst with the colder weather. I am now thinking the lumpy running is to do with the cold engine...so my next attempt is the coolant sensor & thermostat. As for as I can make out, both are in a housing and, in theory, can be replaced seperately, although I can't find a supplier for the thermostat. I intended just replacing the lot.

Any thoughts about this and has anyone had a similar expereince?

Regards,
Colin.
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Huskyxantia
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Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Huskyxantia »

Its hard to get a thermostate on its own as there mostly fitted in a plastic housing, have you cjecked vaccum hoses ? Head gasket ok ?
Husky. :?
Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

Thanks for the reminder re vacuum hoses. I'll check with a bit of loose hose tomorrow.
No signs that the head gasket is leaking.

I am checking prices for the coolant housing.
Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

I spoke to my local mechanic and he will be putting the car on his disgnostic next week, but he though that a good guess would be the timing chain. I can't find a recommended replacement interval for the 1.6 vti. Plenty about belts but not so much about chains. Given the cost involved I was wanting a more definitive analysis (which I might next week).
Does anyone know what Peugeot recommend for their chains?
Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

Update; Local garage could not get a error code to show, and had a bit of trouble delivering the car back due to uneven running! No charge even though they spent an hour on it.
I managed to get error codes over the next few days and at last began to see a pattern, problem in No.1 cylinder. I swapped the plugs around, all ok, so changed the coil (£25) and that cleared >90% of the lumpy running. But there is something still there. Also changed the O2 sensor (£50) and there is still something there. After the last test run , no fault codes generated, BUT there is still something there; lumpy when cold and occassional miss when warm.
I've booked it in for a professional scan (£72) first week in Jan, and that gives me a week before MOT is due.

Is it just me or isn't the point of onboard diagnostics to tell you what is not right so it can be fixed promptly and efficiently? This is has been going on for months now and it is old fashioned educated guesses and trial & error to get this far.
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Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Huskyxantia »

As i have found on board diagnostics are not always true , if i haven't read this right , maf sensor ? Has that been checked if so sorry for skip reading . Have you done a bubble test ? Jar of water , pipe from water bottle to the jar and see if any bubbles appear thats an old way to test head leaks,gasket,..

Idle control valves can play up too, also dirty earths can cause some odd issues
Husky. :?
User avatar
Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Huskyxantia »

Another thing and it might sound silly , could this be anything to do with the new e10 petrol ?

An old car i had well it was 10 yr old when i got it did similar and all tests revealed nothing, mine was head gasket it was just staring to weep, i did that and all was good after, but all cars are different, hope you get a result and fix.
Husky. :?
Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

Update.
Success. I prepared the car for it's MOT, even tho' it was still not running right. There was a persistant P014 code, which had me changing out the cam sensors, oil actuaton ? valves and cleaning the air flow valve & and sensor (x2) all to no avail. So I bought a timing kit and checked the timing and it was out by the tiniest amount and I do mean tiny. That got rid of the error code. The real interest was on start up on and the engine was very poor, due to a failed ignition coil. This seems to be the source of the persistent lumpy start and occassional miss when running. But, as I said above, no error codes until total failure occurred. Very disapointed the OBD could not pick up a failing ignition coil. I would have though a missing spark was one of the easier senarios for electronics to pick up.
Anyway, car has been running ok for a week now, although very low mileage yet.
User avatar
Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Huskyxantia »

Congrats... nice feeling when the cars all sorted, well done.
Husky. :?
Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

I possibly spoke too soon.
The car hasn't been used much in the last few months (and I've changed the gearbox) but the lumpy starting still remains. Nothing like as bad as the original but still there. Also the P0014 code has re-occurred and mis-fires in some cylinders when cold. Now I have changed all plugs, ignition coils and the associated oil valves (forget the correct name). I am convinced it is an electrical fault at source. The only thing left is the wiring harness. It looks ok but I was wondering if there is a simple test I can do with a multimeter to check it or even is it feasible to replace?
We are getting to the stage were we have to think about scrapping it but my wife is fond of the car and it is solid underneath, so I am willing to give it another go.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Regards,
Colin.
Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

Well things have gone from bad to worse.

I was rechecking the coils and plugs; pulling on one of the new coils it seperated (taking it back on Monday), leaving a rubber over the plug, making it impossible to get the plug out. So off came the rocker cover, straight forward, rubber pulled of the plug, all ok. And when I went to put the rocker cover back on...see below
Image
IMG_20220326_152232[1].jpg
A lot of white gung.
I checked the oil cap and found some gung in it, but I had to look right at the top of the cap,in the corners, also some on the oil valves. Now I am sure this wasn't there when I checked recently. Dipstick is clean.
This looks like a lot of gung to me but maybe a small leak produces a lot?
Huskyxantia suggest earlier this might be a source of the lumpy problems I'm having.
I know this is a sign of coolant in the oil (possible head gasket failure) but I have not experienced this before, so any pointers appreciated.
Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

Image

Not sure if original phto came thro'
Attachments
IMG_20220326_152232[1].jpg
User avatar
Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Huskyxantia »

This is possible head gasket failure as starting would be lumpy because water across spark plugs means no spark same as the mayo stuff , if you can or know someone get or have them do a compression test that will shine more light on the problem .
If you have noticed a lack in power over the course of a few weeks and more steam coming out the tail pipe than normal that is another sign gasket going, some don't have to over heat one of my old cars ran for a year before it went apart for the slight lack of power wasn't till i striped the head i saw the gasket had failed

Also that rich oily petrol smell , theres a small kit on ebay that uses a chemical that changes colour when the gasket has gone. Ive used them with good results.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Combustion-l ... 635-2958-0
Husky. :?
Colin2206
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 11:31
Location: Glasgow
My Cars: Peugeot 207 CC
x 7

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Colin2206 »

Thanks for this.
I ordered a leak test last night.
In one way I am relieved to see a physical sign of what the problem may be (mayonase). All this OBD stuff was getting me down, as I was going round in circles and changing out parts on partial info is never the way to go. At least my spend has been modest as I had the sense to swope components around were possible and not pay dealer prices when I did fit new parts.
I fitted two new ignition coils this morning and the car reacted very badly and is throwing up four codes re. the throttle sensor, so I now have to resolve that before I can do anything else. Hopefully it is just been knocked in some way when I took the rocker cover off to access the broken ignition coil.
User avatar
Huskyxantia
Donor 2023
Posts: 1949
Joined: 30 Jul 2018, 22:11
Location: Surrey Kent sussex border
My Cars: Past cars
Xsara Picasso 2019 to 2022 r.i.p
Xantia mk1&2 1.9D & 2.0Hdi
Peugeot 206 sw 1.4hdi
Other models
Skoda fabia,escort van,ford ka,Vauxhall astra g car & estate, Vauxhall corsa b, Suzuki swift
Escorts mk 1,2,3,4,5 fiestas mk 1,2, Sierra diesel mk1 Mondeo mk1 diesel .
Peugeot 207 , 307sw

Now cars
Picasso 2.0Hdi now gone to scrappie
Citroen zx estate 1.9D the cherished one
Peugeot 206cc raised from the dead & saved from the crusher traded up to a 308cc
307sw traded for the 207 .

Wish list.
Peugeot 405 diesel
106 or 206
Mondeo Mk1 diesel once owned 1.8tdi was real nice.
x 398

Re: 207cc lumpy starting.

Post by Huskyxantia »

I'd check the housing of the throttle body see if that needs a clean, sometimes the most simple of things suddenly stare you right in the face and the solution is found, i leave things for a day or two then go back to the car and it sort of goes right
Husky. :?
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