clutch 2.1 dual mass flywheel

[Frenchy]

We have a 1998 mk1 xantia 2.2 td estate, very low miles. It now has a clutch judder, noise and is obviously on the way out.

Have read somewhere in this forum that there are problems changine these clutches, not sure if I remember rightly but that they cannot be replaced because to try to do so you destroy the pipes/tubes to the clutch cylinder?Feel free to correct me.

In short is there a way round this problem as we do not want to scrap the car.

All suggestions welcome, please just keep it clean

[mickthemaverick]

I don't know about the Xantia specifically but before attacking the clutch itself check that all your engine and gearbox mountings are good. Clutch judder can often be caused by a badly worn mounting allowing the gearbox to rotate as you release the clutch. Good luck

[Frenchy]

Definately clutch wear, have had it confirmed by 3 mechanics,although none of them knows about this problem with changing it.

[GiveMeABreak]

We have a 1998 mk1 xantia 2.2 td estate, very low miles. It now has a clutch judder, noise and is obviously on the way out.

Have read somewhere in this forum that there are problems changine these clutches, not sure if I remember rightly but that they cannot be replaced because to try to do so you destroy the pipes/tubes to the clutch cylinder?Feel free to correct me.

In short is there a way round this problem as we do not want to scrap the car.

All suggestions welcome, please just keep it clean

Do you have the VIN - then I can see the various components - If it's a MK I, then it must of been late registered as the Series 2 came out in 1998. And there wasn't a 2.2 as far as I can see - just a 2.1 above the 2.0 in the Diesel engine range.

For the 2.1D there is a specific note about the clutch fork and the push rod of the clutch control receiver must be matched up.

[xantia_v6]

The Xantia 2.1 TD has the same clutch and gearbox as the Xantia 2.0 HDI (110) and the Xantia TCT engines. It is a hydraulically operated clutch, and some care is needed not to damage the hydraulic components which are now difficult to source.

See viewtopic.php?t=54694 for a long and meandering description of the replacement of one of these clutches on an Activa.

[GiveMeABreak]

Some earlier build MKI 2.1 didn’t have the hydraulic clutch and there was specific info for that reason that I mentioned. I will dig it out but better to have the VIN first so we can determine whether this applies based on the build date.

Edit: See info in my next post - with ref. to modification

[xantia_v6]

Some earlier build MKI 2.1 didn’t have the hydraulic clutch and there was specific info for that reason that I mentioned. I will dig it out but better to have the VIN first so we can determine whether this applies based on the build date.

Are you sure about that? The 2.1 Xantia was introduced in 1996, along with the TCT and I thought that they all had ML5T transmissions with hydraulic clutch. The earlier 2.1 with cable clutch was used in the XM, but not the Xantia.

[GiveMeABreak]

I'll amend that bit about the Hydraulic clutch Mike - I should of said it's about the clutch fork mods.

From build dates 6748 (01/05/1995) to 7113 (30/04/1996)

Clutch: All types except for: Turbo CT , 2.1 Turbo D
"push" type clutch : 1.6i, 1.8i, 1.8i 16V, 1.9D vehicles.
"pull" type clutch : 2.0i, 2.0i 16V vehicles, 1.9D Turbo D.

Clutch: Turbo CT, 2.1 Turbo D
"Pull" type clutch.
Hydraulic clutch control: Type XM.
Pre-filling of hydraulic fluid, this type of control, tight and without maintenance, enables the automatic adjustment of the clutch pedal movement.

The clutch pedal movement isn’t adjustable.
The clutch control consists of:
Hydraulics reservoir - Bulkhead (engine side). The tank supplies the fluid needed for the control’s functioning
A transmitter cylinder controlled by the clutch pedal
A receiver cylinder, fastened on the clutch housing, enabling the change of position of the fork
A transmitter-receiver connection ensured by hydraulic channeling
In the case of failure, the clutch control has to be changed completely.

This is the mod:
Applicable to ML5T and BVM5 boxes since build date: 6951 (20/11/1995)
Vehicle application:
XANTIA Turbo CT
XANTIA 2.1 Turbo D

The mounting for the slave cylinder is built into the gearbox.

(1) Gearbox.
(2) Slave cylinder.
(3) Support.
(4) Piston rod.
(a) Location of the gearbox identification number.

Part removed: Slave cylinder mounting (3).
Modified parts:
Gearbox: The slave cylinder (2) fixing boss is thicker by 19 mm
Clutch control: The slave cylinder(4) push rod (2) is 12 mm longer (107 mm, instead of 95 mm)

Gearbox reference
Vehicle	New	Old
XANTIA Turbo CT	20 LE 15	20 LE 06
XANTIA 2.1 Turbo D	20 LE 14	20 LE 00

Clutch Control
The length of the push rod distinguishes the new slave cylinders from the old ones: (107 mm, instead of 95 mm).

Clutch Control
The old slave cylinder is no longer available from the Replacement Parts Division.
The new slave cylinder, together with 2 push rods, is available from the Replacement Parts Division.
Replacing an old slave cylinder with a new one:

• Fit the slave cylinder with the long push rod to the vehicle
• Press the clutch pedal to break the pins holding the push rod
• Remove the slave cylinder
• Replace the long push rod with the short push rod
• Refit the slave cylinder

Gearbox
Only the new parts will be available from the Replacement Parts Division once stocks have been exhausted.
The long push rod ( 107 mm) is available from the Replacement Parts Division.

Replacing an old gearbox with a new gearbox:

• Remove the slave cylinder mounting
• Fit the slave cylinder with a long push rod ( 107 mm)

Going back to the judder, these can be some of the causes - as defined by LUK clutches (note this is generic info and not specific to PSA vehicles), but may be useful nonetheless:

Possible Causes of Clutch Judder

Incorrect grease on splines: Grease containing solids has been used	Tangential strap bent: Incorrect driven practice -> Tow starting in 1st or 2nd gear Incorrect storage -> Dropping the clutch prior to fitting Clutch not bolted up evenly and sequentially
Diaphragm spring fingers bent: Incorrect fitting -> Diaphragm fingers bent during fitting	Facing contaminated with grease: Surplus grease not removed -> Grease has been thrown out on to the facing material
Wear marks on release bearing inner bore: Incorrect grade of grease or no grease used Damaged or worn gearbox snout	Facing worn on flywheel side: Flywheel not replaced Contact surface on the flywheel not re-machined
Damaged hub splines: Incorrect fitting -> Gearbox input shaft and hub splines not correctly aligned prior to fitting -> Driven plate not centered Incorrect driven plate	Release bearing worn: Release fork worn Release system damaged
Release bearing incorrectly lubricated: Use of a solids based lubricant	Worn gearbox snout: Incorrect grade of grease or no grease used Release bearing worn
Push rod wear mark off centre: Damaged release system -> Bearing worn -> Guide bush worn	Flywheel scored: Flywheel not re-machined/renewed
Tangential strap damaged: Excessive free play in the drive joints	Damaged bearing lugs: Damaged release system
	Facing contaminated on the inner portion: Damaged oil seal Excessive grease used on the splines

[Frenchy]

Wow. Thanks for the info. Saw my son today and he has clarified that the clutch isnt juddering.

The 2.1 TD has the dual mass flywheel. I was informed that the 2000 HDI 2.0 that we had did not have the dual mass flywheel so therefore would not fit the 2.1.

I shall get the vin number tomorrow when I phone him.

[yannbeam]

Are you sure you have a DMF ? I'm fairly sure none of the XUD11 in the mk1 Xantia got them. And thats quite early for a DMF to have been fitted.

[xantia_v6]

No Xantia was ever fitted with a DMF.

[Frenchy]

At last I have the vin number for the xantia.

VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

I hope this will identify the car and clutch type. This has been a massive undertaking, trying to get my son to remember to send it to me.

[GiveMeABreak]

The clutch plate is a LUK 235 Diameter, was part number 2055AV, it has been replaced with 2052 V3
The clutch mechanism itself is 2004T5 230 Diameter, replaced with 2052V9

...and no DMF, just a solid flywheel, 0532G2

[Frenchy]

Thank you very much. will pass that on.