Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

GolfMk1Vr6
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 Jan 2024, 22:02

Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GolfMk1Vr6 »

Hi!

1 month ago i have regassed 6 spheres on my Citroen C5 X7 Tourer, 2.0 HDI 2012.

On the very first ride i have noticed that the suspension became quite stiff, it wasn't as soft as before.

Thinking that one sphere didn't hold the pressure, today i have rechecked the front ones and the pressure is fine.

The suspension level is correct, made through Lexia and height sensor adjustment, LDS fluid is new, no height sensor errors/ problems.

Before regassing the car had a very nice ride feeling, i couldn't feel any road holes, now it feels like a sports car, i can feel every imperfection on the road.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37772
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 5816

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Did you bleed the system afterwards? Very likely you have air in the system. Was there a reason why you didn't gas the 7th spere?, and were they all to the specific correct pressures required for each of the spheres?
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
GolfMk1Vr6
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 Jan 2024, 22:02

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GolfMk1Vr6 »

Hi!

When i regassed the spheres i think that my mechanic bleeded the system through Lexia. After LDS changing the bleed probably wasn't done.

The 7th sphere wasn't regassed because i was told that it's very difficult to reach it.

All spheres removed from the car had between 30 and 40 bars. They were filled with 50+ bars.
Kees
Donor 2024
Posts: 113
Joined: 16 Nov 2021, 17:16
x 15

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by Kees »

It's not difficult to remove the front stiffness sphere!
You need to remove the left drive shaft and beneath the subframe the 6mm bolt with hold the airco tube.
And then with a long chisel you can hammer it loose.
I did this already a few times with different car's
Greetings,
Kees.
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6980
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
x 1391

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by Paul-R »

Kees wrote: 25 Apr 2024, 07:09 And then with a long chisel you can hammer it loose.
How usable for regassing does that leave the sphere?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 9132
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
x 847

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by xantia_v6 »

GolfMk1Vr6 wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 20:51
All spheres removed from the car had between 30 and 40 bars. They were filled with 50+ bars.
Each sphere has a specific design pressure. Regassing to some unspecified pressure of 50+ bars will not.result in correct suspension performance.
GolfMk1Vr6
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 Jan 2024, 22:02

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GolfMk1Vr6 »

xantia_v6 wrote: 25 Apr 2024, 08:55
GolfMk1Vr6 wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 20:51
All spheres removed from the car had between 30 and 40 bars. They were filled with 50+ bars.
Each sphere has a specific design pressure. Regassing to some unspecified pressure of 50+ bars will not.result in correct suspension performance.
For my car, these are the required pressures for each sphere:
WhatsApp Image 2024-04-24 at 15.36.30.jpeg
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37772
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 5816

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GiveMeABreak »

GolfMk1Vr6 wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 20:51 Hi!

When i regassed the spheres i think that my mechanic bleeded the system through Lexia. After LDS changing the bleed probably wasn't done.

The 7th sphere wasn't regassed because i was told that it's very difficult to reach it.

All spheres removed from the car had between 30 and 40 bars. They were filled with 50+ bars.
There's you problem then! You can't bleed the system via Lexia / Diagbox. That is only for fully depressurising the hydraulic system. It does not bleed it, so you probably have multiple air locks in the hydraulic system.

Follow this: make sure the vehicle is on level ground.

1. LDS cap off.
2. Start the engine.
3. Setting suspension in high position.
4. Setting suspension in low position.
5. Turn the steering wheel slowly lock to lock (do not hold the steering wheel at the lock limit!).
6. Return steering wheel to centre position.
7. Engine off.
8. Wait for all the bubbles to disappear.
9. Check fluid is between the 'a' & 'b' marks in the picture below.
10 Repeat as necessary.
11. Raise vehicle to normal height.
12. LDS cap back on.
LDS MK III.PNG
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Kees
Donor 2024
Posts: 113
Joined: 16 Nov 2021, 17:16
x 15

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by Kees »

Marc, point #9 is only, when the car is in the lowest position with the help of the diagbox.
Otherwise if you put the car in the low position, then you should see just a little LDS at the bottom.
Greetings,
Kees.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37772
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 5816

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, I know that Kees, but that is what we go by as not everyone has access to the diagnostic tools to fully depressurise the system or are not confident to manually depressurise the axles. This is perfectly normal as the tank has capacity for the little extra fluid. :wink:
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
GolfMk1Vr6
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 Jan 2024, 22:02

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GolfMk1Vr6 »

Yesterday the LDS was replaced and i also cleaned the hydraulic pump, my mechanic added 3 liters of LDS. After that, no specific bleeding operation was done, i will try it today using your method and come back with a feedback :) Thank you!
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37772
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 5816

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GiveMeABreak »

This is the correct way to bleed it officially, so must be done or you'll never get it right. You may need to turn the steering wheel (slowly) several times to get the air circulation and out at point (5). You will get some 'fizz' at the top of the tank. Just let these air bubbles dissipate and repeat the whole procedure a few times, then go for a drive and see how it is.

Assuming you've listened top all the advice above regarding the correct sphere pressures of course (pop your VIN up and I'll check these are correct for your vehicle if you like).
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
GolfMk1Vr6
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 Jan 2024, 22:02

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GolfMk1Vr6 »

I took the car today and before doing the bleeding procedure the car seemed to be a little bit softer than yesterday. I did the bleeding and it seemed 10% better but still quite stiff/ harsh.

I couldn't see the LDS level between A and B because i don't have diagbox, as @Kees said i could see just a little bit of LDS but i couldn't see if it has any bubbles.

I will check the behaviour in the next couple days, i'm not driving the car that much.

Even if the front spheres hold the pressure well in 1 month after regassing, is there any chance of a sphere that is not holding the pressure and releases gas slowly in the LDS so the overall feeling is stiffer?

Or maybe the hydraulic pump/ steering rack may add air to the circuit?

Thanks for helping me :)
Kees
Donor 2024
Posts: 113
Joined: 16 Nov 2021, 17:16
x 15

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by Kees »

I think, that you have to change/regasse the center sphere. Because this one is the one with provide the softmode, and also you have to look at the system completely.
If you decide to regass this one,it's no problem to put it on 75 bar.
Greetings,
Kees.
GolfMk1Vr6
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 Jan 2024, 22:02

Re: Stiff suspension after spheres regassing - C5 X7

Post by GolfMk1Vr6 »

The only problem i had with the suspension was the rear height sensor rod that was rusted, the hydraulic pump was working permanently on the last height position without finalising it.

The mechanic cleaned the rod, installed it back, did the level and now it goes up fine.

Might be a problem with the sensor itself?