DS5 - additive pump

[Keoun]

Hi,

I have just been (mis)sold a DS5 Hybrod4 from a private seller. They said there was two fault codes but drove with no issues.

B162C 12 - Accessories positive relay control and status inconsistent Relay not activated But Active
U1F3C 87 - No communication with the diesel additive pump

In town it's fine, where I was doing a brief test. Come driving it home and taking it on a main road - no higher than 25% power. Struggled going up hills.
Needless to say - seller then fobbed me off, all excuses in the book, so I'm left with a vehicle in desperate need of repairs.


Presumably it's the additive pump fault that is causing the limp mode rather than the other error.
Where abouts is the pump located? / Is it easily accessible? Hopefully I can do some simple tests with a multimeter.

[GiveMeABreak]

Unfortunately being a private sale, your legal rights are few in this case, the only option is via the courts if the seller said something untrue.

The additive pump is CAN controlled, so may not be something you can just test with a multimeter.

Code: U1F3C 87: No communication with the diesel additive pump, means just that. There is not other info as the engine ECU cannot communicate with it. It will need further investigation, but in many of these cases it will require a new pump and this will need a professional diagnostic tool or the dealer to prime.

As for the other fault:

Fault Code:	B162C 12
Description of Fault:	Accessories positive relay control and status not coherent: Relay not commanded but active. The control of the accessory positive relay is inactive even though the output of the accessory positive relay is active Relay not commanded, the accessory positive supply is considered active when its voltage is higher than 5,6 V The time of appearance of the fault code is 1s
Conditions for Fault to clear:	The following conditions have to be met: - Control and output of the accessory positive supply relay inactive - Relay not commanded, the accessory positive supply is considered inactive when its voltage is lower than 5,6 V The fault disappears after 1 s
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	Ashtray lamp malfunction Malfunction of the ambience lamps Malfunction of one or more courtesy lamps Malfunction of the boot lighting / of the torch Malfunction of the lighting of the door sills/backlit door sills Malfunction of the footwell lighting Malfunction of the exterior lateral lighting Malfunction of the lighting of one or more courtesy mirrors Malfunction of the lighting of the storage compartment
Suspect Areas:	Connectors Electrical harnesses Built-in systems interface Supplies protection and management unit

[Huskyxantia]

Selling as not advertised ? Mind you they can use the old spares or repairs loop hole. Amazes me how these people think nothing of it & get away with it too, small claims court make them pay for the parts ?

[Keoun]

Yep am aware of the lack of protections of a private sale, just wanted to portray the frustration, and how I got the two codes .

I had a look under the vehicle earlier today, the undertray beneath the additive pump is a bit damaged and looks to have leaked at some point. some browish goop covering the plastic.

Wiring isn't my strong suit so if it's more involved than a basic multimeter check I'll stay away from that aspect.

From searching the forums it looks like Diagbox can do the configuration.
Luckily for me I have dug out my old laptop which has Diagbox installed and have found the cable in the shed from when I had a C4.
I'll buy a new pump/tank and connect it up before putting any fluid in so I can return if needed. Hopefully instead of no communication it can at least see something and give a different error message.

[GiveMeABreak]

They won't need coding as such, but you will need to top up the additive tank, prime it using Diagbox and tell the engine ECU that you have filled the additive tank by resetting the additive counter.

[Keoun]

Sure, of course.
I just don't want to fill it with fluid to find the core error of no communication is still there. I want to rule out that particular error as the first port of call.

Thanks for the input, hopefully I'll get the new tank/pump delivered by the end of the week and I can resolve the issue; except an update afterwards.
From what I have read the process in Diagbox for this is relatively straight forward.

[GiveMeABreak]

It should be buried in the Repair section somewhere.

[Keoun]

Ok, New additive tank/pump came.

I disconnected the old one and only plugged the electrics of the new one in.
Ran diagnostics and I got both Uf13C 87 as before and a new error stating that the additive tank was empty. It is a bit counter having both no comms and empty error as the latter can't be without the former?

Thinking that the errors were because they needed clearing and diagbox wasn't able to do it - I unplugged the new additive tank and plugged the old one back in. Same no connection error but the empty tank error went away.
So it's clearly reading it, it knows when it is empty and this fault can come and go, but regardless it says no communication with it - and both tank and pump are on the same chip/plug.
Is it just that the no communication error is harder to clear? a permenant fault. The empty tank error was temporary and cleared itself after unplugging it?


Between each change I also attempted to reset the BSI doing the disconnection of the battery method... but I think I was getting this wrong as the DS5 is awkward (can only get to positive battery terminal, barely able to reach start button / sidelights etc.) and I got different results each time I tried (driver window went up by itself on one try, another one it forgot my keyfob for a while and had to put it in the slot etc..). I'm now getting a handbrake fault too. yay.

[Keoun]

Also just to note: I wasn't in the Repair section while doing this. I was only looking in the fault finding section.where it was doing global tests.
I did see option to erase codes but this didn't clear the error.

Might going to repair and going through the priming function mentioned also kick the ecu into recognising it

[GiveMeABreak]

A couple of things.

1) A new additive Tank will need filling, the additive counter resetting and Priming using the repair menu to do this. Expect errors until this part is done, but..
2) The pump is a multiplexed pump so communicates over the data network. However if the wiring harness or plug/ connector is damaged, then this will likely prevent communication. Of course the pump will still be powered via separate connections in the plug, so that will explain the appearance / sound of it working.

So that would be my priority - checking the additive pump wiring connections and harness. These are near the exhaust system and although shielded, may still be vulnerable.

Also, don't operate the pump anymore as dry running it will damage it. These are very sensitive and only dose very small amounts of additive.

[Keoun]

It's not that I saw / heard it working, it is that I got a completely different error code in Diagbox saying that there's no fluid in the additive tank, meaning it's not just getting power but there's comms there.

As additive tanks are so expensive I'm very hesitant to fill it as I won't able to return it, and left with 2 working pumps but still have the no communication fault.

That said, I've just watched a video where as you say, errors were persisting right up until the point of doing the configuration as you had mentioned.

While not the same fault code, they had U0118 which is Lost Communication with Fuel Additive Control Module, and would not clear unless specifying a new pump. Perhaps mine is the same?

I have also come across this thread which specifically mentions U1F3C
viewtopic.php?t=69320
One quote in particular caught my eye: The girl said in the message it "was just a configuration fault...it was configured to the engine ECU (ACU?) and not the additive".
Now I remember when I purchased the car the seller did tell me they had refilled the additive tank, could it be that he had just got his mate to do it and configured it wrong? Or there's legitimately a pump issue and the seller hoped refilling the tank would fix it, and when doing so again configured it wrong causing both a dead pump + configuration issue. If that makes sense?

That fills me with a little hope at least, I can do some more testing before I take it to a Citroen garage - I booked it in but they are busy until 30th November!

The wiring harness going to the additive pump looked fine. If you meant looking at the wiring back to it's source then that will all depend on access, weather and time. I only managed to get to the additive pump as you can practically reach it without jacking the car up much as it's to one side.

[GiveMeABreak]

There's no coding of the tank.
Assuming the tank is the correct part for the vehicle, it needs 'actioning' via the diagnostic tool.

One quote in particular caught my eye: The girl said in the message it "was just a configuration fault...it was configured to the engine ECU (ACU?) and not the additive".

That's nonsense and makes no sense. It is the engine ECU that controls the additive pump and commands the injection of the additive as and when appropriate. There is no coding, just replace the part and prime the pump as per the diagnostic tool. Also make sure the additive counter is reset (separate menu) once the additive has been filled, so the engine ECU knows that the tank has been refilled. Remember the additive tanks have NO physical measurement or gauge. The fluid remaining in calculated based on data from quantity added at factory, mileage travelled etc. The additive tank ECU may be aware when there is no actual fluid at all and throw a fault as this will damage the pump and this is why it needs priming. It's all part of the replacement process. Once it has been properly primed that should take care of that issue.

I can't speak for anything else as I mentioned - like electrical cable damage or connectors.

[Keoun]

Day 1 of being at the garage.
Apparently all other issues are sorted and only the diesel additive pump is the remaining one. It seems the old one itself causing a short circuit, and I just didn't get the new one fitted correctly (or simply couldn't clear it) but had since returned it so I need to order a new one.

I did get the part number from them - I need 9672419980.
Are there any alternative part numbers or is it specifically this? As the one i had previously was 9816296080 and is about £100 cheaper.

Seeing the part numbers being different makes me concerned.

[GiveMeABreak]

If you can't already find the info you need on the Forum, we do ask for a membership upgrade for official parts data as we are in turn charged for this. It will cover you for future parts requests for up to 2 years, so excellent value.

If interested, links are below, then pop your VIN up.

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[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Keoun, thank you for your Forum Donation, please post up your VIN and I'll check the part numbers for you (please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff).