Diesel Additive v BSI faults

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

polmanb
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 18:15
x 1

Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by polmanb »

Hi there.
I've been having various electrical problems with my C4 Picasso Exclusive HD, including fail to start, fail to lock / unlock, phantom seat belt alerts etc. It's a 2015 with 56,000 miles.

I got an off duty AA guy to run diagnotics, and car was showing about 21 fault codes, mostly in BSI (these seemed to cover the type of issues I'd been having with car). One of the fault codes was U1F3C (no communication with the diesel additive pump). Went to trusted auto-electrical garages and were told it "was a dealership job" to reprogram/ replace BSI for security reasons.

Put it into Arnold Clark and they're telling me it'll be £118 to do a software download (presumably to fix the BSI, although the girl that called wasn't really sure) and £560 for diesel additive!! Apparently the engine management light is on because of this, and won't switch off. This is one problem that was definitely not happening before I put it into dealer.

I tried to get her to confirm if this was a separate 'coincidental' problem or linked to issues I'd been having but she couldn't say.

Bearing in mind the 'non-communication with pump' fault code, is it possible that this is causing false additive readings, and that fixing the BSI will fix it? For example the seat belt warning was telling me someone wasn't buckled up when they were. I just get the feeling they're trying to scr*w me. Not that I would want to besmirch the good name of Arnold Clark.

Thanks in advance.
Datadogie
Posts: 31
Joined: 25 Jun 2021, 19:42
x 8

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by Datadogie »

I bought a cheap lexia from Ebay and a cheap Windows 7 32bit laptop from Gumtree changed the pouch myself Total cost £180
And I've still got the lexia and laptop for future use.
polmanb
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 18:15
x 1

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by polmanb »

Datadogie wrote:
25 Aug 2021, 19:30
I bought a cheap lexia from Ebay and a cheap Windows 7 32bit laptop from Gumtree changed the pouch myself Total cost £180
And I've still got the lexia and laptop for future use.
Cheers. I should have added to my original post that I'm not good with my hands. My limit doesn't extend much beyond changing a household fuse :lol:
MGmike
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Aug 2020, 18:29
x 13

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by MGmike »

first of all... big mistake taking it to a dealer and as you're in Scotland you should have checked the forum for member with Lexia to do diag session (like me!).
Second, the software download is probably just to bring it to the latest version. It's a bit like setting a known baseline from which to build. Absolutely not a fix for your specific problem unless they can explain both the issue and how its fixed (not going to happen!).

Then we get to the real issue.. the EML wasn't on when you went in so why is it now? Request a catalogue of all work done and ask them to unpick everything to the point where the car was when it was handed over... again, not going to happen.
Communication errors are usually not fatal and mask the real issue. To get to the source of the problem you need to run component level check and testing to truly understand what's going on.

My advice.. get the car back and take it to someone who knows what they're doing...
polmanb
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 18:15
x 1

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by polmanb »

MGmike wrote:
25 Aug 2021, 22:57
first of all... big mistake taking it to a dealer and as you're in Scotland you should have checked the forum for member with Lexia to do diag session (like me!).
Second, the software download is probably just to bring it to the latest version. It's a bit like setting a known baseline from which to build. Absolutely not a fix for your specific problem unless they can explain both the issue and how its fixed (not going to happen!).

Then we get to the real issue.. the EML wasn't on when you went in so why is it now? Request a catalogue of all work done and ask them to unpick everything to the point where the car was when it was handed over... again, not going to happen.
Communication errors are usually not fatal and mask the real issue. To get to the source of the problem you need to run component level check and testing to truly understand what's going on.

My advice.. get the car back and take it to someone who knows what they're doing...
Thanks a lot for that for that. Very helpful, and I will get someone within AC who actually knows what they're talking about to try and explain it to me.

Believe me, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Unfortunately I tried 3 auto-electric specialists (one of whom I really trust, and the others were recommended by someone I trust), who all said that if there are numerous faults within the BSI / fusebox type whatsit then since about 2014 the dealership has to do it, as the thingumybob (technical term) needs reprogrammed or replaced by an authorised dealer due to security stuff put in by Citroen. I don't know much about cars, so I can only trust what the auto-electricians are telling me.

I was told by all 3 that other than a Citroen dealership there is no-one in Scotland who can diagnose faults within the BSI unit. They all independently said there were companies in England you could send it to, but that in all likelihood they'd charge you at least £100 plus postage for the privilege, and then not be able to fix it, in which case I'd be in the dealership situation again.

I just found this forum tonight in desperation as I can't give them any more money. They charged me £1,000 about 8 months after buying the thing secondhand to replace the wiring loop due to electronic parking brake failure!
polmanb
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 18:15
x 1

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by polmanb »

MGmike wrote:
25 Aug 2021, 22:57
first of all... big mistake taking it to a dealer and as you're in Scotland you should have checked the forum for member with Lexia to do diag session (like me!).
Second, the software download is probably just to bring it to the latest version. It's a bit like setting a known baseline from which to build. Absolutely not a fix for your specific problem unless they can explain both the issue and how its fixed (not going to happen!).

Then we get to the real issue.. the EML wasn't on when you went in so why is it now? Request a catalogue of all work done and ask them to unpick everything to the point where the car was when it was handed over... again, not going to happen.
Communication errors are usually not fatal and mask the real issue. To get to the source of the problem you need to run component level check and testing to truly understand what's going on.

My advice.. get the car back and take it to someone who knows what they're doing...
Had to Google what a Lexia was! The AA guy plugged a diagnostic unit in that he bought himself. He said it's better than the ones the AA provide. I took pictures of all the fault codes just in case they disappeared.
MGmike
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Aug 2020, 18:29
x 13

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by MGmike »

polmanb wrote:
26 Aug 2021, 00:14

Had to Google what a Lexia was! The AA guy plugged a diagnostic unit in that he bought himself. He said it's better than the ones the AA provide. I took pictures of all the fault codes just in case they disappeared.
The AA guy was probably using on of the (better) generic readers on the market but it's unlikely to do everything a lexia can.
It's good you have all the code history.. Can you post the list of codes here?
polmanb
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 18:15
x 1

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by polmanb »

MGmike wrote:
26 Aug 2021, 06:59
polmanb wrote:
26 Aug 2021, 00:14

Had to Google what a Lexia was! The AA guy plugged a diagnostic unit in that he bought himself. He said it's better than the ones the AA provide. I took pictures of all the fault codes just in case they disappeared.
The AA guy was probably using on of the (better) generic readers on the market but it's unlikely to do everything a lexia can.
It's good you have all the code history.. Can you post the list of codes here?
Thanks for that. The codes are: U1F06, B180E, B173D, B181A, B1718, B1808, B1163, B1624, B1715, B1418, B1278, B132A, U1F53, U1F32, U1F3A, U1F3C, U1F1A, U1807, U1F03, B1600, B1138.

I authorised the software download, which has cleared most of the faults apparently. Manager just called and said the management light still on. Something to do with the additive pump.

If it genuinely does need replaced I'd rather give the work to my usual garage, but I'd be driving about 400 miles before they could take me.
MGmike
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Aug 2020, 18:29
x 13

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by MGmike »

The Uxxxx codes are almost certainly communication errors but I'm having difficulty confirming the others as I don't have access to C4 specific codes. They should be Body related but that can be a long list! I would need to plug in the Lexia and read the fault description in the software (Diagbox) to be really sure.

Any of the Mods help with code descriptions?
Last edited by MGmike on 26 Aug 2021, 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
MGmike
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Aug 2020, 18:29
x 13

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by MGmike »

polmanb wrote:
26 Aug 2021, 09:01

I authorised the software download, which has cleared most of the faults apparently. Manager just called and said the management light still on. Something to do with the additive pump.

If it genuinely does need replaced I'd rather give the work to my usual garage, but I'd be driving about 400 miles before they could take me.
What a surprise! Most of them would clear without the software!
Did he say what the codes were that couldn't be cleared?
Also, the additive is only added when you fill with fuel so 400 miles without it will make sod all difference.

Get the car back, bring it over to me and I'll read the codes for you... If it's a pump fault you've lost nothing and can confidently go to your preferred garage for a repair.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 26065
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2992

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Too many to be honest.... Yes the 'U' codes are comms faults - and the 'B' codes are body codes like the BSI. With this number of faults it's likely to be a major module failure like the Fuse Box or BSI or the main connections / data network communication to them.
polmanb
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 18:15
x 1

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by polmanb »

MGmike wrote:
26 Aug 2021, 20:15
polmanb wrote:
26 Aug 2021, 09:01

I authorised the software download, which has cleared most of the faults apparently. Manager just called and said the management light still on. Something to do with the additive pump.

If it genuinely does need replaced I'd rather give the work to my usual garage, but I'd be driving about 400 miles before they could take me.
What a surprise! Most of them would clear without the software!
Did he say what the codes were that couldn't be cleared?
Also, the additive is only added when you fill with fuel so 400 miles without it will make sod all difference.

Get the car back, bring it over to me and I'll read the codes for you... If it's a pump fault you've lost nothing and can confidently go to your preferred garage for a repair.
Thanks a lot for the offer. That's really good of you, and I appreciate the time you spent replying. I'll need to have a think what I'm going to do. I have a lot to deal with at the minute. All the best.
MGmike
Posts: 97
Joined: 29 Aug 2020, 18:29
x 13

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by MGmike »

polmanb wrote:
27 Aug 2021, 17:47
Thanks a lot for the offer. That's really good of you, and I appreciate the time you spent replying. I'll need to have a think what I'm going to do. I have a lot to deal with at the minute. All the best.
No worries, send me a PM to exchange details if you do want to take it further. But just to clear, the donating of beer tokens is not required nor expected for a diagnostic session.
polmanb
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 18:15
x 1

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by polmanb »

MGmike wrote:
27 Aug 2021, 18:50
polmanb wrote:
27 Aug 2021, 17:47
Thanks a lot for the offer. That's really good of you, and I appreciate the time you spent replying. I'll need to have a think what I'm going to do. I have a lot to deal with at the minute. All the best.
No worries, send me a PM to exchange details if you do want to take it further. But just to clear, the donating of beer tokens is not required nor expected for a diagnostic session.
Thanks again for everyone's help, especially MGmike. Don't think I was disregarding anyone's advice, but like I said in the post I have a lot to deal with at the minute, so I gave Arnold Clark the go ahead to just get it done and to hell with the money. I thought it would save me the hassle of dealing with another problem at this time.

They called today and said the electrical stuff was all fine, but the engine warning light was still on for the additive fault they 'fixed'. She said they changed the additive pump and fluid, but the new part they put in could have been faulty and that they'd need to keep it in til Monday and look at it again. I had a moan, as I need the car on Monday. I then missed a call from them about 30 mins later and they left a message saying everything was now ok. Servicing is now closed, so I can't grill them.

The girl said in the message it "was just a configuration fault...it was configured to the engine ECU (ACU?) and not the additive". This sounds to me like the type of electrical fault I put it in for and which was should have been fixed like all the other random electrical stuff that was going wrong. I'm thinking it could have just been configured wrong all along, and was never needing fixed. I specifically asked the manager before I gave the go-ahead if the additive could be linked to the other issues and she said definitely not.

I was going to leave the car in til Monday and go round and see them, but now I'm thinking I'll collect it from the sales team today so it's back in my possession. I could then go round on Monday and get answers and threaten to pay by card for the the software work, but cancel the credit agreement for the full amount. I'm not paying £560 for changing the pump and fluid if it didn't need done in the first place, especially as I specifically asked them about it before I gave the go-ahead. I could ask them for everything in writing, copies of calls and any work sheets / notes etc.

Please don't say I told you so. Like I said, I did it for a reason.
Datadogie
Posts: 31
Joined: 25 Jun 2021, 19:42
x 8

Re: Diesel Additive v BSI faults

Post by Datadogie »

I think the average mileage for the fluid is around the 70,000 - 90,000 mark.
£250 for new pump £80 for pouch and max one hour for time. Probably less time for them as they have a car lift. Often I don't mind their hourly rate
as they have overheads, rent, rates, tools, heating etc. But the knowledge is only as good as the mechanic. Sorry, they are technations these days.
I would only use one of those big garages if I bought a new car. Otherwise, it's the local garage for me.
A car's a car. It's the bloody electronics (Computers) they put in them nowadays that's the problem.