[2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

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BadIdea
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[2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by BadIdea »

Hi guys,

You're probably sick of me by now, but I've had so many problems with this car and I'm just trying to work through them one by one.

So two of the fault codes I currently have relate to the cooling fan:

Code: Select all

P0495 : Cooling function integrated into the ECU
Characterisation : Consistency between speed of fan assembly and reference
Status : Permanent fault
Location : local .
Variables associated with the fault 
Engine speed : 0 rpm
output injected : 0.00 mg/impulse
engine coolant temperature : 12 ∞C
vehicle speed : 0 kph
battery voltage : 12.32 Volt(s)
Engine status : Engine off 
time elapsed since ignition positive : 249 seconds
Fan unit speed setting or fan unit high speed setting : 100 %
Fan unit low speed setting : No 
air conditioning authorisation : No 
air conditioning request : No 
Fan unit : Inactive 
air conditioning pressure : 3.526400 bar(s)
supply voltage of sensors : 5.027 Volt(s)


P0692 : Fan assembly high speed control
Characterisation : open circuit or short circuit to earth
Status : Permanent fault
Location : local .
Variables associated with the fault 
Engine speed : 864 rpm
output injected : 15.42 mg/impulse
engine coolant temperature : 12 ∞C
vehicle speed : 0 kph
battery voltage : 14.01 Volt(s)
Engine status : idling 
time elapsed since ignition positive : 336 seconds
Accelerator pedal position, track 1 : 6050 %
Accelerator pedal position, track 2 : 0 %
Main brake : Pressed 
Redundant brake : Released 
clutch : Released 
air conditioning cut request : Inactive 
Fan unit : Inactive 
additional heating 1 input : Inactive 
additional heating 2 input : Inactive 
engine load : 1 N.m
ESP request status : ? 
+ ignition on voltage : 0.11 V
Are the actuator tests a good place to start? I ran tests for both the low speed and the high speed/variable, and neither got the fan turning. The engine was off, but the ignition was on - is that the correct way to test?
ozvtr
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by ozvtr »

The "low speed" actuator test might not work but the "high speed" should work.

I take it you are suspicious of the fan not working in normal service?

Do you have air conditioning? Does the fan run when you turn the A/C on?

There are a number of different versions of the fan controllers. Some are electronic and some use relays and resistor. Is it possible for you to take a picture of the fan and shroud?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

With these faults you will only get fast speed as it can't operate at low speed for one of the reasons:

For your vehicle (Siemens Assembly):
Fault Code: P0495
Description of Fault: Cooling Function Incorporated in the ECU ( electric cooling fan unit): Coherence between cooling fan fast speed and the reference. Incoherence between fast speed cooling fan copy and the setting for at least 5s. The Battery voltage must be more than 7V and no error internal to the engine management ECU for this fault to be triggered.
Conditions for Fault to clear: Ignition on.
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message:
  • Coolant temperature
  • No warning lamp illuminated
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active (If engine coolant temperature is higher than or equal to 118°C):
  • Air con compressor cut-off
  • Lighting of the engine coolant temperature alert warning lamp
  • Cooling fan operates at fast speed
Symptoms:
  • Engine overheating
  • Air conditioning cut-off
Suspect Areas:
  • Electric cooling fan unit
  • Electrical harness
  • Relay

Fault Code: P0692
Description of Fault: Fast speed cooling fan control: Open circuit; Short circuit to earth (for at least 5 seconds). Fault activated as long as the Battery voltage is more than 7V and with no fault internal to the engine management ECU.
Conditions for Fault to clear: Ignition on.
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: If engine coolant temperature is higher than or equal to 118°C
  • Cutting off of the air conditioning
  • Lighting of the engine coolant temperature warning lamp
  • Cooling fan operates at fast speed
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message:
  • Coolant temperature
  • No warning lamp illuminated
Symptoms:
  • Cooling fan operates at fast speed
  • Water temperature warning
  • Engine overheating
Suspect Areas:
  • Electric cooling fan unit
  • Electrical harness
  • Connector
  • Relay
  • Engine ECU
BadIdea
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Joined: 07 Jan 2020, 12:59
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by BadIdea »

Thanks guys.
ozvtr wrote:
11 Dec 2021, 06:08
The "low speed" actuator test might not work but the "high speed" should work.

I take it you are suspicious of the fan not working in normal service?

Do you have air conditioning? Does the fan run when you turn the A/C on?

There are a number of different versions of the fan controllers. Some are electronic and some use relays and resistor. Is it possible for you to take a picture of the fan and shroud?
I tried turning the climate on, full fan speed, temperature set to the minimum in both zones, and the cooling fan didn't spin. I should note that the climate has never worked properly. The reason I'm having a look at the fan is because of the permanent faults logged. Ultimately, I'm trying to solve a choking/hesitating problem I get when driving for a while (I guess temperature related?), which sometimes results in it cutting out completely and refusing to start if it's been running long enough.

I didn't have my tools with me, but I tried to get a pic of the fan:
407 Cooling Fan.jpeg
BadIdea
Posts: 97
Joined: 07 Jan 2020, 12:59
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by BadIdea »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
11 Dec 2021, 12:15
With these faults you will only get fast speed as it can't operate at low speed for one of the reasons:

For your vehicle (Siemens Assembly):
Fault Code: P0495
Description of Fault: Cooling Function Incorporated in the ECU ( electric cooling fan unit): Coherence between cooling fan fast speed and the reference. Incoherence between fast speed cooling fan copy and the setting for at least 5s. The Battery voltage must be more than 7V and no error internal to the engine management ECU for this fault to be triggered.
Conditions for Fault to clear: Ignition on.
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message:
  • Coolant temperature
  • No warning lamp illuminated
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active (If engine coolant temperature is higher than or equal to 118°C):
  • Air con compressor cut-off
  • Lighting of the engine coolant temperature alert warning lamp
  • Cooling fan operates at fast speed
Symptoms:
  • Engine overheating
  • Air conditioning cut-off
Suspect Areas:
  • Electric cooling fan unit
  • Electrical harness
  • Relay

Fault Code: P0692
Description of Fault: Fast speed cooling fan control: Open circuit; Short circuit to earth (for at least 5 seconds). Fault activated as long as the Battery voltage is more than 7V and with no fault internal to the engine management ECU.
Conditions for Fault to clear: Ignition on.
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: If engine coolant temperature is higher than or equal to 118°C
  • Cutting off of the air conditioning
  • Lighting of the engine coolant temperature warning lamp
  • Cooling fan operates at fast speed
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message:
  • Coolant temperature
  • No warning lamp illuminated
Symptoms:
  • Cooling fan operates at fast speed
  • Water temperature warning
  • Engine overheating
Suspect Areas:
  • Electric cooling fan unit
  • Electrical harness
  • Connector
  • Relay
  • Engine ECU
Do you think the fan probably operates at high speed then? I couldn't get it to activate with diagbox on low or high settings (ignition on, engine off). I've not noticed the temperature getting too high or any warning lights on longer journeys, despite the hesitating and eventual cutting out of the engine.
ozvtr
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Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by ozvtr »

BadIdea wrote:
11 Dec 2021, 20:06

I tried turning the climate on, full fan speed, temperature set to the minimum in both zones, and the cooling fan didn't spin. I should note that the climate has never worked properly. The reason I'm having a look at the fan is because of the permanent faults logged. Ultimately, I'm trying to solve a choking/hesitating problem I get when driving for a while (I guess temperature related?), which sometimes results in it cutting out completely and refusing to start if it's been running long enough.
If the engine ECU believes the radiator fan is not working (logged fault) then it wont allow the A/C compressor to cut in and your air conditioning wont work (cool).

Those symptoms fit an over heating engine BUT the temperature gauge should indicate an over temp condition. Not familiar with the Peugeot 407 but does it have a gauge or light for temperature? Does the gauge start at the 'cold' position and move up the scale as the engine warms up (do you think it's working OK)?
BadIdea
Posts: 97
Joined: 07 Jan 2020, 12:59
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by BadIdea »

ozvtr wrote:
12 Dec 2021, 00:18
BadIdea wrote:
11 Dec 2021, 20:06

I tried turning the climate on, full fan speed, temperature set to the minimum in both zones, and the cooling fan didn't spin. I should note that the climate has never worked properly. The reason I'm having a look at the fan is because of the permanent faults logged. Ultimately, I'm trying to solve a choking/hesitating problem I get when driving for a while (I guess temperature related?), which sometimes results in it cutting out completely and refusing to start if it's been running long enough.
If the engine ECU believes the radiator fan is not working (logged fault) then it wont allow the A/C compressor to cut in and your air conditioning wont work (cool).

Those symptoms fit an over heating engine BUT the temperature gauge should indicate an over temp condition. Not familiar with the Peugeot 407 but does it have a gauge or light for temperature? Does the gauge start at the 'cold' position and move up the scale as the engine warms up (do you think it's working OK)?
Interesting, so the AC may start working if I replace the cooling fan.

I'm fairly sure the temp gauge works - see the video below for what started happening when I was cruising on the motorway:

ozvtr
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Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by ozvtr »

BadIdea wrote:
12 Dec 2021, 17:09


Interesting, so the AC may start working if I replace the cooling fan.

I'm fairly sure the temp gauge works - see the video below for what started happening when I was cruising on the motorway:
If the A/c is otherwise serviceable (I.E. full charge of refrigerant, compressor good ETC) then yes. If your fan is no good then replacing it will get the A/C working again.

Under normal circumstances the fan doesn't run much at all. Just the car moving along, through the air, cools the engine coolant in the radiator just fine. It's usually in slow or "stop-start" traffic that the the engine tends to over heat if the fan is not working.

Are you talking about the engine RPM fluctuating? I don't think that's related to the fan or temperature. I'm not a diesel guy so I'm not sure whats doing on there.
You might need to start a new thread about the engine revs.
BadIdea
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Re: [2006] Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi Cooling Fan Not Working?

Post by BadIdea »

ozvtr wrote:
13 Dec 2021, 11:20
BadIdea wrote:
12 Dec 2021, 17:09


Interesting, so the AC may start working if I replace the cooling fan.

I'm fairly sure the temp gauge works - see the video below for what started happening when I was cruising on the motorway:
If the A/c is otherwise serviceable (I.E. full charge of refrigerant, compressor good ETC) then yes. If your fan is no good then replacing it will get the A/C working again.

Under normal circumstances the fan doesn't run much at all. Just the car moving along, through the air, cools the engine coolant in the radiator just fine. It's usually in slow or "stop-start" traffic that the the engine tends to over heat if the fan is not working.

Are you talking about the engine RPM fluctuating? I don't think that's related to the fan or temperature. I'm not a diesel guy so I'm not sure whats doing on there.
You might need to start a new thread about the engine revs.
Okay, thanks.

Are there any fan units recommended over the rest for compatibility and reliability with model of vehicle?

Yes, the RPM fluctuating - this eventually culminated in the engine cutting out completely and bringing us to a stop at the side of the motorway. After that, the car refused to start until it had cooled down an hour or so, having been recovered to a service station. I did start another thread about this (see below), but it didn't gain a lot of traction and so I decided it might be best to address each fault one by one first.

viewtopic.php?t=69966