PP2000 with 306

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jakuboz
Donor 2021
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Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 22:36

PP2000 with 306

Post by jakuboz »

Hello everyone,
Patient here is 1998 1.6l 8V Peugeot 306
VIN  VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
DAM 7980
The problem is that I'm unable to interface with my 306 using ACTIA cable and PP2000/Diagbox  (which launches PP2000).
I have a virtual machine with Win XP and 25.01 version of PP2000, and a Win7 one with Diagbox 9.91.

I have a VCI that looks like this: viewtopic.php?t=59785
I've tested it with a Peugeot 2oo8 that belongs to a friend of mine, and I was able to properly interface with the vehicle (tried a couple of options, that seemed to work fine) so I'd assume that my cable is not faulty.
Depending on which VM I use, its firmware us up-/downgraded. While connected to my 306 I can hear its relays clicking.
Cable OBD connector has pin 5 (signal ground by OBD pinout schematic)not connected, pin 4 (chasis ground) has two wires soldered.

Some generic OBD2 Bluetooth dongle is correctly able to read DTCs from my vehicle, and is able to clear them.

In PP2000:
Ecu Configuration and services -> Global test  - takes forever to go through "Engine ECU" part, overall result is attached. The result is of course wrong, as I have MIL light on (and a DTC that I'm able to read via OBD2 dongle).
When I click on ECU row after scanning, I'll receive an info about incorrect matching of the ECU (incorrect engine, system or vehicle) and to contact technical assistance platform with ECU identification numbers.

Ecu Configuration and services->Test by ECU->Engines->Petrol->NFZ BOSCH MP7.2  will ask me if the engine can be started. If I answer 'yes' it will tell me to "check autodiagnostic line", and return to engine selection. If I answer 'no' it will tell me to check: transponder Peugeot, ignition controlled +ve to control unit and battery +ve to control unit.

It is the same regardless of which VM I use.

What did I check?
-Pulled out ECU- it has a sticker with MP7.2 on it, so I'd assume it is the correct ECU
-I'd assume that both ignition and battery voltages are present, as OBD dongle senses them correctly (I can check them later with a multimeter)
-There is no 2-pin diagnostic connector present
-Two different PP2000 instances on different operating systems
-OBD socket has no mangled connectors
-Some OBD socket pins are not present (2, 6, 9, 10, 11, 14)

It might be that I'm doing something wrong, have wrong VCI(?), have too new PP2000 or there is some secret know-how that I'm not aware of.
So currently I'm out of ideas- if there is anything else that I'm able to check- all ideas are welcome.
It might be also caused by a severe case of "it's not going to work"- it would not be surprising.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It's possible that given the build date (14th September 1998) that your car may be a bit too early being a petrol engine - I know some petrol ECUs won't be read or detected. I can't say whether it will be the VCI or the protocols used for this year. Diesels have less of a problem.
cit-rotti
(Donor 2020)
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Joined: 07 May 2020, 09:19
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Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by cit-rotti »

All logs should be legible with an original VCI.
Sometimes it is better to run the diagnosis with older software.
Information:
Chinese clone - original
The specialist recognizes an original at first glance - it does not have to be opened.
1. There is a 6-digit white marking on the black round connector, for example "SD1505" - a different number depending on the date of manufacture.
2. The 15-pin USB connector is black - mostly blue when cloning.

3. The small 2-pin power connector next to it is rectangular on the clone and rectangular with a grid dimension on the original.

4. With the older original VCI “ACTIA PSA XS EVOLUTION” you will find the number (for Citroen) 921815C / 15W46 / 0088586 on the small sticker on the back for both the 9750.Z5 and A.1281.Z. - every original has after 921815C its own number.
And for newer models “ACTIA PSA XS EVOLUTION R” for A.1281.Z and. the number (for Citroen) A.1281 Z Evolution R 922173A / 17W13 / 0096173. and every original has its own number according to 922173A.

The China hits are all the same the Citroen number is: 921815B / 40W07 / 0005451 sometimes also 921815 C ... or a similar number for Peugeot.
And with clones, XS Evolution always says "Made in France", the original never has "Made in France"
.
5. The original connection cable is also longer and also has a 6-digit white marking on the black round plug - example SD1346
.
6. The original front sticker on the A.1281 Z only has the Peugeot symbol (thick black font) and Citroen (thick red font) and the clone still has the DS Spirit symbol - the text below the surface is also different.

Wolfgang
wheeler
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Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by wheeler »

Most of your observations seem to be correct about the fake interfaces however I have a genuine interface & it is definitely made in France.
In the pics below the genuine one is always on the right.
The fake one i have here was given to me by a friend to test as it stopped working. I opened it up & there is some sort of burnt out relay.
Anyway my observations between the real & fake ones are:
  • The fake ones don't come with the stickers applied but come on a separate sheet, unless you have a robotic hand theres no way your getting them stuck on like they came out the factory & I'm pretty sure there will always be signs of them not being perfect
  • There is an obvious difference in colour of the main sticker here but I suspect this may be down to usage oily hands etc. Mines is well looked after & always kept in a ziplock plastic bag when using to keep it looking new. This unit is about 13/14 years old believe it or not
  • The fake one has a round CE sticker on it that was definitely not on the original
  • The screws holding it together on the fake one are black Philips head, the real one small silver Torx heads but with a slot so a flat head can also be used
  • The sticker on the back of the real one says made in France as it does on the fake one. I can't imagine the would not have just copied an original one??
  • The little loop thingy where the cable goes into the interface is on the opposite side of the real one
I see what you mean about the little tiny connector on the bottom, the real one is keyed & the 15 pin connector is indeed blue on the fake.
I had never noticed the numbers printed on the round connector before as its always had the little rubber scratch protector on it.
The serial numbers on the fake are indeed the ones you say.
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cit-rotti
(Donor 2020)
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Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by cit-rotti »

...that is interesting.
I myself own 3 used original XS PSA Evolution VCIs.

1. 9750.Z5 Evolution.… ..921815C / 09W44 / 0021774… .SD0930… + SD0937 (AC911840A1 16/09) for the original OBD cable

2. A.1281 Z… Evolution… 921815C / 15W46 / 0088586… SD 1505 + SD1346 (AC911840A1 39/15) for the original OBD cable

and a newer XS PSA Evolution R
3. A.1281 Z Evolution R… 922173A / 17W16 / 0096571 SD1631… + SD1640 (AC911840A 11/17) for the original OBD cable

and I bought about 5-6 used original VCIs for my circle of friends and installed the diagnostic station. "Made in France" was not printed on any of them.

My oldest 9750.Z5 must be older than yours, which has 09W44 as the production date and only there are "Torx screws" installed. The newer models have changed screws - but no Phillips-head like the clone VCI - I never noticed.

Greetings Wolfgang
jakuboz
Donor 2021
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 22:36

Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by jakuboz »

Just to be clear- I've never said that I own an original VCI. I said that I own one "that looks like" (because from what I know, there are some that have missing components inside), and that I tested it on another vehicle (to rule out that it's busted).
Buying original one (which are also hard to come by) for a garage/hobby use wouldn't be financially reasonable.
Mine also has an additional sticker on the back, but otherwise fits the clone description.
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cit-rotti
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 34
Joined: 07 May 2020, 09:19
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Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by cit-rotti »

..I agree with you.
But a good clone VCI (easy-dignostik) costs between 150 - 160 €.
A used original is usually just a little more expensive - but difficult to come by.
At the moment I can offer 2 used VCI XS PSA Evolution Rs for 180 € + shipping costs. Customs and taxes are probably a problem at the moment.
Greetings Wolfgang
wheeler
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Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by wheeler »

jakuboz wrote:
21 Nov 2021, 17:17
Just to be clear- I've never said that I own an original VCI. I said that I own one "that looks like" (because from what I know, there are some that have missing components inside), and that I tested it on another vehicle (to rule out that it's busted).
Buying original one (which are also hard to come by) for a garage/hobby use wouldn't be financially reasonable.
Mine also has an additional sticker on the back, but otherwise fits the clone description.
Image
The top labels is the sticker that comes on the outside of the box. :-D
wheeler
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Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by wheeler »

cit-rotti wrote:
21 Nov 2021, 17:10

My oldest 9750.Z5 must be older than yours, which has 09W44 as the production date and only there are "Torx screws" installed. The newer models have changed screws - but no Phillips-head like the clone VCI - I never noticed.

Greetings Wolfgang
I have no idea what the numbers at the bottom mean or how the dates work but i got this one in 2007 when this type had not long come out, I've had this even before Diagbox was released.
I have the earlier type too the black rectangular one, the pre evolution type, it doesn't seem to be compatible with Diagbox or even the earlier PP2000, Only seems to work with Lexia.
jakuboz
Donor 2021
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 22:36

Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by jakuboz »

cit-rotti wrote:
21 Nov 2021, 17:50
But a good clone VCI (easy-dignostik) costs between 150 - 160 €.
If you mean this one https://www.easydiagnostics.co.uk/produ ... t-vehicles then mine (set) looks identical.
At least from what I can tell from their photos, that appear to be just sourced from the internet. Fun fact- the first one has a polish invoice in the background.

I'll just leave the reference photos here.  Although I did notice that a resistor is missing where I put the red circle.
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cit-rotti
(Donor 2020)
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Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by cit-rotti »

I cannot write you a really good answer.
Pictures say nothing and pictures and advertising are only available from clones.
There are full-chip variants that are bad - and sometimes there is nothing under the "Cip hats" - and VCI with 2 chips that work correctly - even with the current DIAGBOX 9.xxx. Originals don't know a story like full-chip etc.

Most of the sellers are just dealers and buy in larger quantities cheaply somewhere and then have to get rid of the stuff - they have no idea about the diagnosis and the problems that come with it.

With easy-dignostik this is completely different and much better and has already been described more often in the forum. I have already bought there for a friend - perfectly fine - but expensive.

There are also forums that describe exactly what needs to be changed so that a VCI clone works like an original. The effort requires a good knowledge of electronics - it is usually not worth it.
Understanding:
Those who buy cheap are either lucky or often buy 2-3 times.
jakuboz
Donor 2021
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 22:36

Re: PP2000 with 306

Post by jakuboz »

cit-rotti wrote:
21 Nov 2021, 21:18
I cannot write you a really good answer.
No problem, like I said- "this won't work" is a perfectly valid answer for me. Especially when everyone tried to help, even thou there were already a lot of similar topics around the internet.
The rest was more of an academic discussion.
cit-rotti wrote:
21 Nov 2021, 21:18
Those who buy cheap are either lucky or often buy 2-3 times.
I know this one- "you can not afford cheap things" :)