Advice re C5x7 Tracking

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PeeBee
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Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by PeeBee »

Hello All,
Today I have had 2 new Michelins fitted to the front of my C5 x 7 (2008) Petrol saloon and appropriate adjustment made on a Hunter Tracking system by KwikFit .
I am somewhat mystified upon reading the report to see that there are a number of the settings shown in red, one for the front wheels and 4 for the rear wheels. At the bottom of the report (as attached) there is the following : One or more values are not within specification. Tire wear,handling and safety problems may result.

I would be grateful for any advice or thoughts on the settings shown, should I return to KwikFit and ask why the settings are not within secification ?.




Hunter Tracking.jpg
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I can only provide you with the following Official data for the C5 X7 with Metallic Suspension: Ignore the last column as that is for 'Rough Roads'.

Front
Checking values (Tyre dimensions: 225/55 R 17; 245/45 R 18; 245/40 R 19)
Vehicle typeVehicle for EuropeCRD vehicles (CRD = difficult road conditions)
Camber (not adjustable)-0°20' ± 0°30'-0°13' ± 0°30'
Castor (not adjustable)5°30' ± 0°30'5°30' ± 0°30'
Pivot angle (not adjustable)8°12' ± 0°30'8°02' ± 0°30'
Tracking at the axle (adjustable)0°09' ± 0°09'0°09' ± 0°09'
Camber dissymmetry : + 0°50' / - 0°24'Castor dissymmetry : ± 0° 30'Pivot angle dissymmetry : ± 0° 30'

Rear
Checking values (Tyre dimensions: 215/60 R 16; 225/60 R 16; 225/55 R 17; 245/45 R 18; 245/40 R 19)
Vehicle typeVehicle for EuropeCRD vehicles (CRD = difficult road conditions)
Camber (not adjustable)-1°56' ± 0°30'-1°41' ± 0°30'
Thrust angle0° ± 0°30'0° ± 0°30'
Tracking at the axle (adjustable)0°43' ± 0°09'0°43' ± 0°09'
Camber dissymmetry : ± 0° 30'
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bobins
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by bobins »

It would seem that there's a small amount of adjustment to rear toe that can be done on these, but front and rear camber is not adjustable.
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by PeeBee »

Thanks for that Marc & Bobins.
I have to confess to still being in the dark after looking at the official settings from Marc as some of my current settings dont appear (to me) to be near the official data AND even more 'mystifying' is the fact that the majority dont appear to be adjustable anyway ??. Now to a lay person like me it seems hardly worthwhile ever having the tracking ' adjusted' in the first place as there only seems limited adjustment is achievable and yet common-sense tells me that clearly beneficial adjustment can be made otherwise every Citroen C5 owner would have been complaining bitterly by now at the cost of constant tyre replacement !. So I guess I will watch how the wear develops on the new tyres and see where we go from there.
Very interesting!, thanks for that gents.
As an afterthought I note that my Lexia indicates something about steering angles, is there any adjustment available there?.
Not that I would contemplate 'messing' about in that region even if you could as I am definitely not competent to try
Paul
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Sloppysod
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by Sloppysod »

Hi Paul,
I had my tracking 'checked' and reset on my C5 (x7) back in 2017, attached is the final report I received, if I remember correctly the adjustment on the back (toe-in) was a pig to do and their comment was "not many garages have this equipment and cannot check it like we can" or something similar. I had mine reset and the tires do not show adverse signs of wear, so I am pleased. I have attched my report for comparison. - hope it helps.

As you can see the front was well out as I had only just replaced the rack!
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by GiveMeABreak »

PeeBee wrote:
24 Jul 2021, 20:34
....... As an afterthought I note that my Lexia indicates something about steering angles, is there any adjustment available there?.
Not that I would contemplate 'messing' about in that region even if you could as I am definitely not competent to try
Paul
No, don't touch anything there. That is likely the Steering Wheel Angle sensor section you have found. That is the sensor in the steering wheel control module that tells the ESP computer both the angle and how quickly you are turning the wheel, which feeds into the stability control system.
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by PeeBee »

Thanks for the look at the report Stu, that is interesting. I note that the front 'toe' readings are very much the same on both vehicles although none of the other front readings are but the rears dont appear to be much alike and at least yours are in the green whereas 4 of mine are red. It looks like its a question of whats adjustable and what isnt so I will just watch the wear over the next few months and see what evolves.
Thanks Marc for the info re the Lexia, I definitely wont be 'playing' with that.
I didnt initially need the front tyres replacing as they had both got a good 12 months wear yet on the mileage that we do. They were both replaced as a result of a motorway incident resulting in the off side front side wall of the tyre being pierced. My grandson was driving in the fast lane at a generous 70 when a vehicle in the middle lane perhaps 10feet in front of him, started to manouvre into the fast lane, obviously not seeing my Grandson coming up behind him. My Grandson was forced over into the central reservation and the front wheel struck the upstanding pointed edge of a lamp post concrete base in the central reservation. How he held it off the central barriers with a flat blown out tyre I dont know and then crossed 3 lanes of busy motorway with rush hour traffic to get to the hard shoulder to change his trousers and a tyre.
In view of the above I am surprised that the steering geometry seemed to have come away very lightly and extremely thankful that all I have got to worry about is steering geometry!.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That'll be the reason then - I was going to suggest in my last post that this can happen as a result of a knock to the wheel (s). On some vehicles this can impact into the rack and damage the power steering, resulting in a new rack (for the systems with electric PS integrated). It's wither going to cause wear or uneven handling at some point if not already, so may well need some replacement parts to resolve.
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by PeeBee »

I assume my vehicle is the electric type steering you refer to Marc. I have, since having the new tyres fitted, taken it for a drive both locally and a few miles of motorway and it handles nicely with no steering wheel vibration etc. Its already had one steering rack replacement 2 years ago , the norm for these vehicles.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Not specifically, although you have electro-hydraulic Power Steering, I was just using a scenario from vehicles (not the C5 X7) that have a completely electrically operated PS system where an impact on the wheel can internally damage the system.

I had 3 racks on my X7 - so you've got a way to go yet :-D

I'd just keep an eye on the tyres and see if there is any abnormal wear on any of the fronts.
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Sloppysod
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Re: Advice re C5x7 Tracking

Post by Sloppysod »

PeeBee wrote:
25 Jul 2021, 13:13
Thanks for the look at the report Stu, ..................... How he held it off the central barriers with a flat blown out tyre I dont know and then crossed 3 lanes of busy motorway with rush hour traffic to get to the hard shoulder to change his trousers and a tyre.
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