E10 fuel

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protemporum
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E10 fuel

Post by protemporum »

Hello, simple question from simple Xantia 2.0 8 valve petrol (1995) owner, will this antique car run on E10 petrol ?
Thankyou, Roger.
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myglaren
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by myglaren »

Take a look here.
UK Gov. site dedicated to just that.
protemporum
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by protemporum »

Thanks myglaren, i had already checked the government site, my car is too old and does not conform with the government computer base. The Xantia owners manual refers to RON95. I fear that i will have to purchase E5 fuel, which will eventually be priced out of existence.
Thanks, Roger.
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myglaren
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by myglaren »

Damn!
I can see this becoming a fiasco like when unleaded was forced - introduced and caused damage to many engines - police fleets among others.
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Clogzz
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by Clogzz »

The Xantia Mk I runs well on RON 95 and 98.
Mine did and clocked up about 232 000 km.
E10 causes pinging and the engine gets hotter, so the saving is mostly lost in heat.
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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

protemporum wrote:
22 Jun 2021, 23:02
Thanks myglaren, i had already checked the government site, my car is too old and does not conform with the government computer base. The Xantia owners manual refers to RON95. I fear that i will have to purchase E5 fuel, which will eventually be priced out of existence.
Thanks, Roger.
I posted this on the Car News Global And Domestic Thread may be relevant. E5 fuel is the standard forecourt fuel now. Surprisingly it is specified to contain between 0% and 5% Ethanol. Currently there is no requirement for renewable fuel to be in Super unleaded 97 and 99 grade petrol.

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 11:26
Esso Fuel Frequently asked questions from Esso's own mouth.

E5 is not what I thought it was, it is not 5% ethanol, it means anything from 0% to 5% ethanol, and of course is on sale at every forecourt across the country.
https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels-faqs
The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains up to 5% ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded (97 and 99 grade petrol).

Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97 and Synergy Supreme+ 99 ) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area, Scotland and NW England). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area, Scotland or NW England. The European standard BS EN228 covers the requirements for 0-5% ethanol unleaded petrol, the labelling requirement for zero % ethanol is E5 (as is up to 5%), a E0 label doesn’t exist. We understand that this is confusing if you are looking for zero % ethanol fuel, but as advised we can confirm that our Supreme Unleaded fuel supplied in areas except those listed (Devon, Cornwall, Teeside, Scotland and NW England) is ethanol free.
Never knew that, apparently big oil companies are not precise enough to produce a fuel which does what it says on the tin, ie one which precisely includes 5% ethanol, and the EU labelling and standards are so imprecise that E5 means anything from 0% to 5%. I wonder if E10 will mean anything from 6% to 10%, anything from 0% to 10%, or does it actually mean 10%.

Regards Neil
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xantia_v6
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by xantia_v6 »

There are 2 issues with E rated fuels,

The first and most important is that older cars may have some fuel system components that are damaged by the ethanol and may start to leak, causing a fire hazard. All cars sold new in the EU from 2000 have ethanol-safe fuel systems. Many cars built before that were safe, but PSA have not published any data. My guess is that 1995 Xantia is probably OK, but it is only a guess. I am more confident about my 1997 Xantia V6, as I know that there were no changes to the fuel system for that engine until the end of production in 2001.

The second issue is that E rated fuels have different combustion characteristics and some engines (pre- 2000) don't run as well. The main thing here is that the ethanol has requires more fuel to be injected under the same conditions or the engine will run lean. In engines with oxygen sensors, the ECU detects the lean-running condition and increases the injection pulse widths to compensate. Some engines are better at adapting than others. You will find that your MPG gets worse (I think it is theoretically 4% for E10. My XM and Xantia (both ES9 V6 engines run fine on E10, but when the engine is cold (and not operating in closed-loop mode) there is sometimes a slight hesitation while accelerating, as the mixture is a little lean.

You can correct the mixture (if you always run E10) by increasing the fuel rail pressure a little. For the 3 bar pressure regulators commonly used on PSA vehicles of the 1990s, there is a 3.5 bar version available which is a direct replacement, and corrects the mixture under all running conditions.
protemporum
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by protemporum »

Hello everyone, I am surprised at the knowledge of this forum. I am a bit of a skinflint, so have for the last 25 years and 184,000 miles always run the Xantia on the cheapest pump price petrol i can find. It has never "pinked" or "run on", and i can get a shade over 40mpg. Always passes the "MOT" with excellent emissions figures. I will take on board all of your comments, and check for any signs of fuel damage. As i am now 70+ years this may well be the last car i run, so i think i may as well run it as i have been until it, or i fail.
Roger. Thanyou.
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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

protemporum wrote:
23 Jun 2021, 11:18
Hello everyone, I am surprised at the knowledge of this forum. I am a bit of a skinflint, so have for the last 25 years and 184,000 miles always run the Xantia on the cheapest pump price petrol i can find.
Roger. Thanyou.
I think you will find this forum a very welcoming place Roger. Stick around, have a read and join in with the chat in the Off Topic section here, even if your car is going fine.

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... um.php?f=2

Regards Neil
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myglaren
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by myglaren »

I wonder how we will manage with the E85 being used in some places.

Buy SAAB Aero-X's perhaps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_Aero-X
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Wikipedia
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myglaren
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Re: E10 fuel

Post by myglaren »

Some testy stuff.



Not watched because of the annoying bloke.