XM Accumulator Sphere

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wesacosa
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XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

Hi All. I am trying to remove the accumulator sphere on my 97 XM 2.1,TD . I have a removal tool (the type with a longish handle) but its just too tight to get loose with the leverage I can get on it in the small space. Is there any way I stand a chance of getting it off without taking the accumulator off the car? Or am I going to have to bite the bullet and get it off the car?
If I do take it off, do Citroen still sell the high pressure pipe seals, and what is it best to use to plug the pipes? Thanks
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white exec
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by white exec »

Hi Wes'

Access to that sphere is cramped, and instead of the long-handle tool, I put together one of these, nicknamed The Iron Maiden...
DSCF2168.JPG
It allows a socket to be used from the top, where there's not much space round the sides.

If you can't do something like this, you might have success with a chain wrench (or strap wrench) with a longish extension going upwards - similar to using strap/chain to get an oil filter off.

A couple of clonks with a hammer can help loosen a stubborn sphere, or digging in with a cold chisel + hammer can do it.
Thread of the spheres is right-hand, same as a normal bolt.

Make sure the system is de-pressurised before trying to unscrew. All spheres are much tighter with pressure behind them.

Citroen still do all the pipe seals for the different sizes of hydraulic pipe:
LHM pipe seals 2.JPG
LHM pipe seals 2.JPG (21.56 KiB) Viewed 119 times
The square-section O-ring for the spheres will normally come with a new sphere, or you can re-use the old one.
It's 5272 15, if you need it on its own.
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

Hi Chris. that looks good. Sadly beyond my fabrication skills though. I will see if I can get hold of a suitable oil filter chain wrench see if that works. thanks
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white exec
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by white exec »

Hope helpful. Try not to remove the whole pressure regulator if you can help it.
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

someone selling this. does it look like it would be good enough
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

managed to get it loose. Got a jack handle down through all the pipes and hoses at the right angle to hit it with hammer onto the sphere wrenche, got it shocked loose mm from impaling the handle into the radiator 😬
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white exec
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by white exec »

Well done, you. \:D/ One of the few cases where a hefty clonk is actually recommended!

That tool looks a good one; might be worth getting it anyway.
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

Cheers Chris. Hopefully it will have fixed the nasty noises the pump was making
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

hmm it still doesn't sound happy. noises coming from pump/accumulator when going up and down
I can't seem to attach a video so will have to try and put them on YouTube
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

going up

going down


Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 19 Jun 2021, 18:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by myglaren »

If the accumulator sphere is a good one (right pressure) I wonder if the regulator itself is goosed.
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white exec
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by white exec »

A few QQ:
- is the replacement Acc sphere the correct one (no damper, just a 6mm hole) and gassed up ok (62bar)?
- after fitting it, did you leave the 12mm depressurising bolt slackened for a while, while the pump returned fluid to the reservoir?
- did you bleed the hydraulic system at the 4 brake calipers (RR, RL, FR, FL) ?
- is the fluid level ok (and the level indicator not stuck)?

Reason for asking is that the jangling could be air in the system.
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

Hi
The sphere is a new Lazate 62 bar. I only saw a hole but it's first one I ever saw so not sure what damper look like
I left the 12mm bleed open until the job was done but it was close when I started engine for first time
I haven't bled brakes yet but next on my list
the orange saucer is right at top of sight glass I don't think it stuck as it changes slightly when i raise car. but even at full height its too high. I think I maybe overfilled but I only put 3.5L in after tank was taken out and emptied. I don't know how high in the tank it should be when I take cap off as I bought the car with large leak from Doseur so fluid was already low

another thing to mention is occasionally when I start up in low and shift lever to high the stop light comes on and it beeps (LHS display dead so not sure of error message). light goes out after few seconds and then car starts rising
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white exec
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by white exec »

OK...

It's possible that the pump is faulty, but these are rugged units, and rarely give trouble. Before suspecting it, worth checking other things . . .

Over-filling the reservoir by a litre or so isn't serious, because there's a lot of headroom in there, even with the suspension on Lowest.
The correct level is checked with suspension on Highest, when the orange disc (not the gold metal one) should be between the two red rings. If slightly above, don't worry.

The level sensor is just a mechanical 'stick' float. You can remove the whole thing by unplugging it, and rotating its top rectangular tab by about 90deg anticlockwise, then lifting it out.
Check the float is free to move up/down.

It's normal to get a Stop/Low Hydraulic Pressure warning (or Brake Pressure Loss warning) if the car has been on Lowest - or has just sunk there when parked - and you immediately set the height lever to Normal (or High), before the pressure has built up. You can even get these warnings if the lever is left on Normal, and the car has been parked up. This is because the pump can only deliver fluid at poressure at a certain rate, and the demand for height can exceed its ability to supply it. The message should extinguish with 1 minute at most, and normally quicker than that. A few extra engine revs speeds things up.

If you can't read the LH display, first suspect the small illumination bulbs behind it.

If the pump noise is still there, before doing anything drastic, check that the pump is not trying to handle AIR, which it doesn't do well.
1: With the car body properly supported, open the 12mm de-pressurising screw by 1½ turns (no more), and let the engine run for a couple of minutes. This should return lots of fluid straight through the pump, and back to the reservoir, and flush out any air.
2: Check the security and tightness of the SUCTION HOSE between reservoir and pump. This is the only part of the hydraulic system under suction, and if air gets into the system you can expect a noisy pump, notchy and under-powered steering, and thuddy suspension (especially at the rear). Check the hose for splits or bad connection at both ends, remake the joins if needed, and try to use genuinely circular hose clips on these jouints, not the usual worm-drive clips, which can distort the hose. The joints on this hose MUST be leakproof; being under suction, you will not see leaking fluid, but air can be drawn in.

Bleeding the system
This should be done after any hydraulic component (hose, sphere, valve...) has been removed. There is a proper procedure for this on the XM, which bleeds the whole of the sydraulic system, including the brakes . . .

- Support car, wheels hanging, suspension on Highest
- Remove road wheels (all at once, or one at a time)
- Throw an extra 1L of LHM into the reservoir
- Start engine, and wedge the brake pedal down lightly (use a length of wood between seat front and the pedal)
- Open and bleed the brake calipers (using their bleed screws) - usual short length of cleap pipe ionto a jar - in this order: RR, RL, FR, FL - until air-free fluid emerges. Expect to draw off 1L+ at the RR, as this does most of the system; much less at all the others.
- When all done, switch off engine, remove brake prop, replace wheels, and return car to ground.
- Check reservoir fluid level (on Highest).
______________

Try that, and see what you get.
The videos were very helpful. If you do another, try to get (the mic) closer to the hydraulic pump.
.
DSCF3937.JPG
Left: sphere with damper insert (corners/wheels)
Right: without insert, eg Accumulator or Hydractive centre sphere
wesacosa
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Re: XM Accumulator Sphere

Post by wesacosa »

thanks again for the detailed reply. Good to know about the stop light coming on is normal. The RHS display is dead pixels rather than the light behind. Repair is on the "to do" list

It would make sense that its air, I don't recall the noise before I stated work on it but I haven't disturbed any hoses and the noise was there before I did the sphere. I wasn't certain I could undo the 12mm screw with engine running so I will try that. Should that be done on specific suspension setting? I can reach the valve from below with it in low mode , or does it need to be raised. If its raises I guess by support body you mean axle stands under jacking points?

With regards to the brake bleeding, I read somewhere that the suspension needs to be loaded when brakes are bled (ie 3 other wheels on ground) but it seems not.