thinking of buying a C5 X7

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darbuck
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thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by darbuck »

Hi all,

I haven't been on for a long time, didn't have a french ca, had gone Jap for a while.
I am thinking of buying of buying an X7 but they seem to have a lot of hydraulic gremlins popping up in searches, such as steering and front shocks. Is it any worse than previous models. I am looking at a 2.0Hdi for my sins, I need to sell the yolk I have at the moment first, just doing research. I scrapped the MK 1 C5 and regretted it ever since. you just don't get the same comfort in anything else.

Dar

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The steering racks will fail on these - no doubt, bad materials / design on this particular model, many owners here are on their second or third racks!

As for hydraulics - the struts are not repairable - they have to be replaced as a whole if they go unlike previous models - but you can't get new suspension struts for the MK I and MK II C5s any more. You can get a new C5 X7 strut from Citroen for £417 at today's prices or from Poland for about £220 ish. That's without fitting of course.

So something to consider.

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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
30 Jan 2021, 13:30
The steering racks will fail on these - no doubt, bad materials / design on this particular model, many owners here are on their second or third racks!

As for hydraulics - the struts are not repairable - they have to be replaced as a whole if they go unlike previous models - but you can't get new suspension struts for the MK I and MK II C5s any more. You can get a new C5 X7 strut from Citroen for £417 at today's prices or from Poland for about £220 ish. That's without fitting of course.

So something to consider.
How many racks did yours go through before it left your ownership, Marc? A fair few, as I recall. :D

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I sold mine on the third rack (which had a reconditioned, primed, painted and protected coating, along with the pinion boot modification referred to extensively on the Forum that others have also done).

I hope I never see another steering rack again.

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darbuck
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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by darbuck »

that seems like alot to swallow does the mod citroen made work on the steering rack the little green ring or does it just slow the inevitable. I have to say its the first time i have ever felt like i am being discouraged by such revered enthusiasts as yourselves. I might have to go to the dark side and drive a pug 407 or 508 if that is the case :lol:

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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I have heard of refurbishment companies who chrome plate the susceptible parts (I think a forum member had this done), but I cannot say more than that, as I don't know any more.

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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by GiveMeABreak »

darbuck wrote:
30 Jan 2021, 14:27
that seems like alot to swallow does the mod citroen made work on the steering rack the little green ring or does it just slow the inevitable. I have to say its the first time i have ever felt like i am being discouraged by such revered enthusiasts as yourselves. I might have to go to the dark side and drive a pug 407 or 508 if that is the case :lol:
Don't get me wrong - I loved my X7 and was a huge improvement in many areas over the previous models - it is essentially a different car not a facelift like the MK II was over the MK I.

Safety and security along with other features are much improved. I wouldn't discourage ownership, but would simply state what you need to be prepared for. Parts are more widely available for the later model as more and more parts for earlier models are no longer manufactured and becoming more scarce.

The X7 still has a lot of life left in it. Get a good one that has been looked after and they will last for years. Earlier DW10BTED4 engines have proven reliability. There can be some issues with the later DW10CTED4 engines as these had bits removed and added to meet stricter Euro regs, so there's more to play up on those engines. Never had a single engine issue by the 74k miles mine had done before selling her.

Have a look at the C5 X7 owners' Poll so see what typically are the main issues:

viewtopic.php?t=59630

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darbuck
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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by darbuck »

it was the owners poll which drew my attention to specifically issues with the hydraulics which have always been citroens strong point that worried me. Has no one devised a cunning plan to prolong the steering rack?
I will say it will be an earlier model I will be looking for. The pandemic is making skleros a little bit tight so concerned at higher costs. I know alternatives have a lot of issues with engine troubles so knowing the engines are good is a big selling point for me. They are a fabulous looking car and the steering column is cool.Its a pity about the rack, but I am wondering if I found a good one and carried out the mods you suggest and add an extra seal maybe a few fibre washers and a rubber washer bonded together at the top to seal the void and hopefully prevent the corrosion on the lower part of the shaft. what do you think or has anyone tried to substitute the little green ring in the pic to the rack ?
rack image.jpg
rack image.jpg (59.76 KiB) Viewed 87 times
courtesy of bobbins post

viewtopic.php?t=57734

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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I believe some members have also fitted a gaiter packed with CV grease. As I understand it, the problem is that water can puddle in a cavity and then the steel rusts. As I also said in my previous post, some companies who refurbish the racks chrome plate the pinion (at least, that is the part I believe was plated), provided it is not too far gone.

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darbuck
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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by darbuck »

that would be the obvious part to plate really, good idea, I wonder is there a way I can inspect that shaft quickly when I am looking at a possible buy

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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The little green Fairy Liquid ring is a total joke.

That was the only 'modification' we are able to discern from the Citroen 'modified rack'.

You really need a boot over the pinion after greasing the pinion with some marine grade grease. The whole idea being to keep the water away from the pinion to stop it settling and leading to rusting of the shaft and then seal deformation and contamination of the inside and eventual oil leak. The boot should be open at the bottom to allow any water to run out of course.

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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by admiral51 »

I cannot comment on the wet system on the C5 X7, however i did have a 2008 1.6hdi on steel that apart from lack of service on my part lasted 8 years with no issues, AFIAK it is still in the hands of a forum member.
I now run a 2010 C5 X7 2.0 Hdi that i probably paid a little over the odds for it but i love it, came with recent cambelt water pump belts tensioners and discs and pads all round @ 62k miles and again its on springs and touch wood no issue with either of them with the rack.
I have looked at the posts about the steering rack and that was something that i factored in to the cost price. A few years ago the racks were expensive but now they seem to be a little bit more reasonable . I factored in a cost of £1k for a replacement rack when looking for a C5 X7 but that was 3 years ago.
They are a really nice car, the 2.0 Hdi lump is proven as is the 6 speed manual box.
If i need to replace the Xantia i will be looking for another X7.

Colin

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darbuck
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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by darbuck »

I think I am sold on them to be honest they are a cracking looking car and better to drive than the nearest competitors by all accounts. the faults seem to be less as well which is a nice break from the norm. I was very sceptical of the green ring myself and couldn't see any benefit and I think what I suggested might at least reduce the water ingress combined with the boot and grease and rubberised paint. If I find one that is half right I will drop the rack and carry out the fore-mentioned mods.
Is there much of a difference in the springs and the hydractive comfort levels?

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bobins
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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by bobins »

The green ring doesn't really achieve anything !
It's one thing to protect a new or near new pinion shaft with grease, a rubber boot, Denso tape, or whatever other defences you can come up with, but if it's already rusted and wearing out the seal, then there's not a great deal you can do to 'un rust' it satisfactorily :(
I've got a 2009 steel sprung one and am more than happy with its comfort levels. There've been too many reports of broken height sensors, leaking front struts, and malfunctioning hydraulic pumps for me to want to own a 'wet' sprung one, but there are plenty of people very happy with theirs. If you regularly load your car up or carry 3 or 4 adults then the wet suspension version might be better for you.

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darbuck
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Re: thinking of buying a C5 X7

Post by darbuck »

I was thinking it didn't look very useful. Judging by some of the pics of the shafts its important to check the rack before buying I think 8-[ . Is there any way to get a quick visual on the shaft when buying one. I carry 4 adults regularly and I want to tow a 9' x 4' trailer every once in a while so I think I will need the wet suspension by the sounds of things.