Alternator problem

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Wawpeyo
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Alternator problem

Post by Wawpeyo »

Hi, here i come with another issue, peugeot 308 VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
I forgot the fault code just now, but it came as reversible alternator speed sensor fault.
Wtf is a reversible alternator?
Really this have one?
At the moment not charging the battery and no other faults.
I have to suppose any alternator wint will do?
Whats the part number for it?
Cant really see the alternator so i will have to search for it.
This time lets try to make it short so all the questions in one.
Hell Razor5543
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

As I understand it, a reversible alternator is one that can be spun up by an electrical current, and is used in vehicles with start/stop technology. This, believe it or not, helps simplify the engine bay, as you don't have to have both a starter motor and an alternator. However, that is the limit of my knowledge on these things.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Wawpeyo wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 20:17
Hi, here i come with another issue, peugeot 308 VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
I forgot the fault code just now, but it came as reversible alternator speed sensor fault.
Wtf is a reversible alternator?
Really this have one?
At the moment not charging the battery and no other faults.
I have to suppose any alternator wint will do?
Whats the part number for it?
Cant really see the alternator so i will have to search for it.
This time lets try to make it short so all the questions in one.
You have a Stop Start system, so a a reversible alternator is used. This provides the combined function of a starter and an alternator in one. It ensures the engine can be rapidly started.

It also turns mechanical energy into electrical energy and electrical energy into mechanical energy. In order to ensure there is always backup power for the safety systems to operate on Stop / Start systems, there is also a large capacitor that stores the electrical energy created through regenerative braking and from deceleration.

Your alternator should be a 180A unit, part: 5705PA (new) item (1) below, or 1625944380 for an exchange unit from Citroen. These are Valeo.
Stop Start.PNG
The capacitor is usually stored behind one of the wings - but be very careful about touching these as they are obviously highly charged and must be discharged before removing or handling (not that you should need to at present).

Reversible alternators can wear out a bit quicker as they are doing 2 jobs and are in constant use.

Again, if you have any fault codes relating to this , put them up now.
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by Wawpeyo »

Here is the screen which stays after i cleared all others which were all can faults, i believe the battery was too low and then caused the others also the oil gauge one, but dont think is related
Before you ask, yes i did change the battery for a normal one without the reset, should i?
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20201106_232134.jpg
20201106_232214.jpg
Wawpeyo
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by Wawpeyo »

Thinking back, i cant believe they did it again!! A bloody dynastart, like 30 something years ago i had a dkw van with dynastart (f5 if i remember well)and that gave me enough trouble, only that one if i dont wrongly remember was really big, something outside the engine or the gearbox, anyway getting old and forgetting things
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

There's another possible problem then too - when you say you replaced the battery a "normal one" what do you mean exactly? You do realise that you have to fit a specific AGM battery (70AH-760A-AGM) on this vehicle with Stop & Start?

AGM batteries are designed to accept regenerative current from the braking system of the vehicle, are designed for frequent engine restarts that Stop Start systems require and they have an extended duty cycle life to ensure that electrical equipment / systems in the car are maintained when the car is stopped at lights or in traffic for example. They also support extended operation in lower states of charge.

If you fit a standard non-AGM battery, then expect it to fail within 4 months!
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by Wawpeyo »

Yes i know, well i can fit a AGM , but that battery has been nearly not used, i dont mind if it fails in 4 months as long as its not causing the issue, to be fair, i will disconnect the start stop crap is useless and annoying, and never will save the money in diesel that the battery and the bloody reversing alternator cost when they break.
So, isnt charging and have that fault, the battery its just a month old and never used with the start stop feature,do you think anyway that will be the issue? Do i have to register the battery on the bsi?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I can only tell you what is supposed to be fitted and the reasons why, with the possible consequences of not doing so. Whether you follow the guidance is of course up to you, but I don't think it will be that simple to fully remove the system, as I said the capacitor (voltage retention device) and the other electronics, engine ECU and BSI and other systems are setup for Stop Start.

If the Stop Start system detect insufficient charge / capability in the battery it will not use Stop Start.

This and similar systems are becoming increasingly the standard for new vehicles. The AGM batteries are intended to work with Stop & Start - and as I've already said fitting a normal battery will ruin it very likely within 4 months. The charging systems on this car are also designed to work with an AGM battery - so a standard battery could be abnormally affected by the charging from the alternator and the regenerative braking charge......

As for the battery type - yes the battery type / capacity is specified using the diagnostic equipment.

Removing one or more parts of the Stop Start system may actually cause you more problems down the line and you will have to notify your insurance as it will be a modification - as this system is part of emissions reduction technology and disabling such systems permanently may have legal implications....

Basic components of Stop Start as fitted to this vehicle:
  • Reversible alternator
  • Central voltage retaining device ECU
  • Energy accumulator
  • Vacuum pressure sensor
  • Special battery
  • Activation switch/Deactivation of the function
  • 2 Dynamic tensioner rollers
  • Reinforced accessories belt
  • Clutch master cylinder position sensor (manual box)
  • Gearbox neutral sensor (manual box)
Features:
  • Central voltage retaining device ECU
  • Management of the charging and discharging of the power storage battery
  • Management of the restarting of the engine by the reversible alternator
  • Management of the alternator/starter motor mode of the reversible alternator
Wawpeyo
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by Wawpeyo »

Ok, lets try a returnable agm, in case it sorts the problem, to be fair , i have another german car with start stop, just put a normal battery and programmed the start stop to remember to be off always and has been perfect for long time, if i want the ss just push the button and have it available, its maybe a beautiful system, but it have to be well engineered to not be annoying i believe
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by Wawpeyo »

So no any possible causes for that speed sensor fault more than the senaor itself or the battery? I believe there is no spare parts for that sensor, just buy a new alternator?
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by Wawpeyo »

Ok new agm, registered, same fault, any clues?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Did you change the alternator yet? If the fault code P1A85 is still there then that points to the alternator. And I note your Battery charge was 60% - I assume that was before you changed the battery - but regardless, if the alternator is faulty it may not be charging the battery anyway.....
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Re: Alternator problem

Post by Wawpeyo »

No, thats expensive just to try, will try to investigate a bit more before taking that