AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

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jlmacd
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AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by jlmacd »

Hi there. Am about to attempt (finally) the replacement of the two main solenoids for the upgraded Borg Warner type, to hopefully cure the wretched 'snow and sport' limp mode problem. I embarked on this last year but hit the problem of how to upgrade the Transmission ECU for compatibility for the BW solenoids. I have now succeeded in doing this using my PP2000. (More by accident than design. Seat of the pants affair but it appears to have worked...)

So, forgive my ignorance here but I wanted to ask about how you get the ATF fluid up to the correct temperature. I have been reading extensively but there seems to be conflicting information. The obvious - drive it, of course but there are other reports of just running the engine with the box in either Park or Neutral. Some seemed to favour P, others N for differing reasons.

In my case, I have bought sufficient ATF to attempt as reasonably complete a replacement as possible. About five flushes seemed to be recommended, given the restricted amount that drains each time.

The car will be up on ramps (with the back end on stands to have it level) so I was hoping it may be possible to run it up to temp in situ, as opposed to having to drop it and drive it each time. Is this a possibility?

Many thanks if anyone can assist.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Put the vehicle in Park and allow it to idle.
You just run the vehicle until it reaches 60°C (can be +8 °C to -2°C variation) in gearbox oil temperature.

You can use PP2000 to tell you what the transmission oil temperature is. Just go into the AL4 gearbox ECU after the global test, then select measurements or parameters and select the items you want to see live data for. The oil temp should be in one of the standard parameters - but if not, select custom parameters and pick what you need.

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by jlmacd »

Brilliant - thats a great relief to hear. Thank you, Marc ! That should save quite a bit of hassle then between draining/refilling. Thought I was going to have to drop it down and drive it then raise it each time.

I did see a reference to the transmission fluid temp in PP2000 when I was investigating how to upgrade the ecu but it only showed the temperature as 'Normal' though, no actual °C reading. Think I was in the Parameter Measurements section of the automatic gearbox ECU but perhaps I was looking in the wrong place? I will have another look.

Another step closer then! Next hurdle is to try discover what seals and gaskets in the valve body I need to replace along with the solenoids. I wondered, would this be stated in the PSA parts listings? I found a good (German) transmission specialist supplier but I can't seem to be able to source the info as to what is specifically required. Am still looking though.... perhaps worth an ask here on the forum?

Many thanks for the quick reply, Marc . Much appreciated.

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Pop your VIN up if you need parts info and I'll take a look.

Incidentally you can't update the ECU software using a clone interface as it needs to connect to PSA servers for that and you'll need a technician log in. I wouldn't attempt it either as cancelling out of a log in box may deactivate your interface. Best to make sure the internet connection is not active on your laptop whilst diagnosing.

But of course you can configure the existing parameters with the Borg-Warner replacement block (as I think you have already done?).

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by jlmacd »

Thanks again, Marc. What I did actually happened unintentionally. I had read on an old thread that it was possible to update the auto transmission ECU using Lexia (for Citroen, obviously) and that the updating firmware was already embedded in the software. So, am afraid my curiosity got the better of me and I went searching for same in PP2000. Sure enough I found the 'downloading' section in the the auto transmission ecu menu. Of the two options available, one seems to interrogate and report the current status of the ecu. In my case this showed, along with various other information, there had been only one download flashed to it, back in June 2002 (year of manufacture), software version was 0D and current edition was 0F01.
I had already discovered from another post that version 0F01 wasn't compatible with the Borg Warner solenoid upgrade - runs at too slow a frequency, I believe - and that is what necessitates the ecu firmware update.
Indeed, I had already confirmed, through the 'Compatible with Borg Warner' check in PP2000 (for my RHZ engine) that this was the case - it reported back 'NO'.

Anyway, the second option appeared to initiate the process to actually perform the update. I made sure the internet connection was definitely disabled, wary of exactly what you described, connecting to the PSA server and bricking the ECU or interface in the process. I took the next step towards the edge of the cliff. This asks if you want to 'Remote Download' - presumably from the remote server? I selected 'No' which then takes you to what I guess is a log page which records the date the download was performed and a numerical 'signature'. It says at the bottom of the screen to 'validate to continue or press the return key'.
Previously, I had read that in the case of the Lexia, you were presented somewhere with a list of the available firmware update versions residing within the software. Thinking this would be the next screen I, absent mindedly, hit the wrong button and was immediately confronted with a progress bar and the glaring message 'Downloading in Progress' - No indication of WHAT it was downloading!!
So, I sat in the car with my heart frozen for about four, agonising minutes (seemed like a lifetime) , transfixed on this orange progress bar. All the while I am also trying to figure out how the hell I am going to get a tow truck up the drive to haul the car away now I have killed the ecu with the gearbox locked in Park....

Mercifully, the progress bar eventually completed to 100%. I went back to the page to interrogate what the outcome - or damage - had been. I can only report the following:
1. the software version is the same (0D) but the current edition had updated from 0F01 to 0F03
2. the log now showed 'total no. of downloads' as 2 - with that days date and 'signature' recorded
3. using the 'Check Borg Warner Compatibility' function again (for the RHZ engine type), this time it report 'YES' !
4. the car started fine and drives with no problems. The Limp Mode issue still exists, of course.

I had read that for the ECU to be Borg Warner compatible it had to have version 2 of the firmware (0F02) This is apparently backwards compatible for both solenoid types but not the other way round. Version 0F01 can't run the newer solenoids at the required frequency. So, if I have now somehow ended up successfully flashing ver3 (don't ask me - I can only say what I see!) then you would rather assume the same backwards compatibility exists. I sincerely hope so anyway.

It wasn't intended to happen this way but that was the outcome. Personally, I wouldn't recommend this approach for those of a nervous disposition.... 8-[

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Oh well done in that case! You were lucky there that it had the embedded software already in that version of Planet! That must of been a relief - as there is nothing worse that hitting a button in error in Diagbox and wondering if the world is now about to end :rofl2:

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by jlmacd »

That, indeed, sums up the sensation perfectly! And, yes, lucky is also a good description!

So, moving on. My VIN is VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]. If you could take a look for the correct seals/gaskets I would need for the valve body for the solenoid replacement that would be very much appreciated, Marc.
I have been going round in circles with very differing information. Seems there should be the two seals for the actual pressure and lock up valves (one for each i believe) but there is also mention of others (oil inlet/outlet?) and also possibly a gasket to replace on the valve body cover. Seems some valve bodies also have a paper gasket that needs replacing too between the two parts. Maybe seeing the proper parts diagram may help distinguish the correct parts and numbers. Maybe there is a kit for the job containing everything required?

Anyway, if you get a convenient moment, am very grateful if you could take a look. Many thanks

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by jlmacd »

Hi Marc. Think I have now managed to find the cover gasket and the oil seals. Not certain about the paper gasket between the two halves of the valve body but guess that will be apparent when I take it apart.

thank you for the offer to have a look though

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Sorry - I've been out today and had large deliveries the day before....

OK, so let's see...
406 BVA.PNG
Anything on the list - just let me know the number and I'll give you the part and price.

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by EDC5 »

Amazing story! I'm very interested to hear that some software updates are encapsulated within the diagnostic software itself.

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by jlmacd »

I managed to find the old post which led me on this voyage of discovery but don’t know how to post a link here to reference it. Had a look in the FAQs but can’t see how this is done. If someone could enlighten me how to do this I will point you in the direction of it. Otherwise I could copy and paste the text I suppose.

I would reiterate though, I am not stating that the updates definitely reside embedded in PP2000, only reporting the outcome of what I did! Judging by the result, it does appear to be the case but I can’t offer any guarantees!

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by jlmacd »

Hello again, Marc. I did manage to source the valve body cover gasket and oil inlet/outlet seals (not shown on this diagram) from a supplier (in Poland!)
The other two seals I was hunting for are shown as part number 8. The ones for the pressure and lock up solenoid shafts.

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so item (8) is the AGB ring seal and is part: 257813 (19,2 X 22,6 - 3,5), however it is no longer available from Peugeot. :(

You may be able to source a replacement using either the part number or the dimensions though.

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by jlmacd »

Lovely - many thanks, Marc. The hunt continues then ...

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Re: AL4 Auto Box - ATF temperature

Post by lexi »

What about searching Renault. Is DPO not their version of AL4?