Injectors

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colinsunderland
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Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

Got a 2011 3008 1.6HDi SR (112)

110k on the clock

Theres a load tapping coming from the engine which I think is the injectors. It's progressively getting worse, 15k ago the noise wasn't there at all.

A few garages have looked at it and said don't worry about it, the noise is normal, but I'm thinking, if it is normal then why wasn't it doing it 15000 miles ago :)

Called into an injection specialist today, he said it sounded like the injectors are knocking, but he said he doesn't want to touch it, but what he said was

The DPF will be blocked, and possibly the EGR valve too. This creates back pressure on the engine, and the injector seals will be gone. He said the injectors might be knackered too, but without testing he couldn't say. He says it's really common on these, and the reason he won't do them is that just doing the injectors or seals won't fix it, as it can then cause other problems.

He suggested getting the DPF professionally cleaned (specifically said not to use a carbon clean or Terraclean) and the noise might sort itself, but if not, then pull the injectors, replace the seals and get the injectors tested. He said he can clean and test them all (£60 + VAT) as long as I get them removed and drop them down as he doesn't want to touch the car himself.

Does that sound likely? It doesn't have any symptoms of a blocked DPF at all, runs absolutely fine, no smoke, no oil loss etc.

What do people think, any advice?

Just to add, this guy is extremely highly regarded round here, I've heard nothing but good things about him, and a couple of garages have said go to him. He's also not trying to get any extra work or anything as the only thing he was willing to do was clean & test the injectors. He said one of the reasons he stopped doing them was that someone would come in, ask him to do the seals, then end up spending thousands on a DPF, EGR valve, new seals, injectors etc.

If its going to cost that much, I might as well grab a new (used) engine as it would be cheaper getting one with say 60k on, than spending that much on injectors and the associated work.

I've searched on here and couldn't find anyone talking about similar problems, so just wondered what peoples thoughts were, thanks very much for any advice.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The only issue I have is that if you were getting a back pressure problem with the DPF you would be getting a fault code with a diagnostic and the engine warning lamp / particle filter warning would likely be coming on. Secondly if the filter was clogged you would also be getting the message 'Particle Filter - Risk of Clogging' and warning message.

So if you've not been getting those I can't see how he can say that for sure. Was a diagnostic run - and if so what were the codes - that has to be a starting point to be honest.

colinsunderland
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Re: Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

No, he just had a quick look at the car and listened to the engine, and said he wouldn't touch it for the reasons he suggested.

There are no fault codes, it was scanned with a snap on diag kit a few weeks ago when I got the DPF fluid filled and the only code apart from the fluid being low was a sidelight bulb being out :).

He didn't say for sure, just thats what it usually was, and he didn't want to do it because of those reasons.

What I think I'll do is get the mechanic who usually does work for me to get them out, replace the seals when he does it, and take them down to him for testing and cleaning, he said about £50 for the work, so about £120 to have them resealed, cleaned and tested isn't over the top I don't think. If any are faulty then I think it will be second hand ones from ebay, the cars only worth about £3k max, injectors are £450 each I think new, plus fitting, plus coding, plus labour, then the DPF and EGR valve if they do need doing, would be cheaper to sell this as is and buy another one!

Any cons in doing that do you think?

Thanks so much for the reply :)

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi Colin, well this is the 1.6 HDi engine and another vehicle where the injector seals and sleeves can become contaminated with oil and carbon. How often do you change the oil on it? - ideally with these engines, 6,000 or less to keep the oil clean, protect the turbo and reduce sludge getting into the engine oil channels.

I'd certainly get the injector seals and sleeves checked to see if there is any evidence of carbon build up first of all, and just make sure they seals are all good and that they are all torqued down correctly.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Have a look at my post here with pics on the issues:

viewtopic.php?p=650153#p650153

colinsunderland
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Re: Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

It was serviced at the proper intervals up to about 70k, then it was missed (at least nothing in the book) until I got it at 90k. I serviced it a week later, has been done twice since and will be getting done again in the next few weeks.

Thanks for the advice :) any idea where I can find the correct torque for this engine as most are different, and also how to tell which part number the injectors are, I rang peugeot today to ask (so I could keep an eye out for them on ebay if needed) and they were useless, said I had to remove them to find out, which i'm sure isn't true!

colinsunderland
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Re: Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

Also just been thinking, when the knocking first started, I thought it sounded like oil starvation would have on older petrol cars. I've seen reports that the oil pick up filter can get clogged, it couldn't be that could it? Would that produce a similar knock?

Do you think it would be worth booking it into Peugeot for a half hour diagnostic, which is quoted at £60? Would that show up what the problem was, and which, if any, injector wasn't performing properly?

I don't have a problem buying Lexia, as obviously it can be used for other things, but is the data easy to understand? Like, if I bought it and ran it, would I be able to tell which parts of the engine need attention? I'm fairly technical but when I've seen some read outs some people have posted on other cars I have no idea what most means lol.

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myglaren
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Re: Injectors

Post by myglaren »

You could post anything you don't understand here and someone should be able to give you advice on it.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

colinsunderland wrote:
14 Jul 2020, 20:23
It was serviced at the proper intervals up to about 70k, then it was missed (at least nothing in the book) until I got it at 90k. I serviced it a week later, has been done twice since and will be getting done again in the next few weeks.

Thanks for the advice :) any idea where I can find the correct torque for this engine as most are different, and also how to tell which part number the injectors are, I rang peugeot today to ask (so I could keep an eye out for them on ebay if needed) and they were useless, said I had to remove them to find out, which i'm sure isn't true!
That sounds like BS to me.

We can provide you with live parts data Colin, but as PSA charge us for this info, we do ask for a relatively small donation which will cover you up to 2 years for any future parts queries or parts diagrams.

Details in the table below for more info.
A response to your question by a forum admin will require detailed vehicle information that requires you to have made a current contribution to the Forum.
Donate

Further Information

colinsunderland
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Re: Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

Just donated, thank you Marc

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

HI Colin

Ok, so thanks for that, you donor status has just changed - so you are all in green now.

First things first though. I was just checking your injectors for you and as sometimes happens, a big red warning triangle comes up advising me of a recall notice being outstanding on this vehicle, which is another benefit of having the live data direct from PSA. :wink:
An after-sales campaign must be carried out on this vehicle. Advise your client to make an appointment with their authorised dealer as soon as possible
Now I can't tell you what exactly it is, but I suggest you contact a Peugeot dealer and tell them you have been advised of an after sales campaign being outstanding based on your VIN. Quote them your VIN number and they should also see the warning and will be able to provide you with more details.

Just last month another member who recently joined with the same vehicle ended up having the timing belt and tensioner done free of charge - see my post here:

viewtopic.php?p=646683#p646683

So I'm not saying it will be the same thing, but given his was a 3008 with 1.6 HDi, it could well be, so don't delay!

As for your injectors:
Injectors Colin.PNG
Your 3008 was originally fitted with Continental Injectors.

The latest part numbers for these are: 9802448680 for a brand new - £459.10
They do an exchange version for a bit less: 1608518380 - £364.68

These are Peugeot prices as of today and include VAT. But at least you have the part numbers to search on.

Tightening Torques DV6C:
ReferenceDesignationStageTightening torque
(1)bolts (Cylinder head) (*)Pre-tighten
Tightening
Angular tightening
2 daNm
4 daNm
260°
(2)bolts (Rear upper timing cover ) (*)Tightening1 daNm
(3)bolts (Oil trap) (*)Pre-tighten
Tightening
0,5 daNm
1,3 daNm
(4)bolts (Camshaft bearings covers) (*)Pre-tighten
Tightening
0,3 daNm
1 daNm
(5)bolts ( vacuum pump)Pre-tighten
Tightening
0,5 daNm
1,8 daNm
(6)bolts ( vacuum pump)Pre-tighten
Tightening
0,5 daNm
2 daNm
(7)bolts ( lifting bracket )Tightening2 daNm
(8)nuts (Exhaust manifold heat shield)Tightening0,8 daNm
(9)nuts (Exhaust manifold)Tightening2,5 daNm
(10)studs (Exhaust manifold)Tightening1 daNm
(11)Pre-heater plugsTightening0,6 daNm
(*) Follow the tightening sequence
Injectors Colin B.PNG

colinsunderland
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Re: Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

Thank you for that, weirdly most garages have said it's got Bosch injectors in (without checking of course), so lucky I didn't just buy some based on that.

When I was on the phone to Peugeot yesterday, I specifically asked if there were any recalls on the car, and they said no! So is that the same as an after sales campaign?

colinsunderland
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Re: Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

ok, so just rang Sherwoods (my closest dealer) and it's the timing belt same as the other guy. Of course I did have it done myself about 18 months ago, but didn't tell them that and will get them to replace it again :)
£12 to get a loan car for the day too, which I thought was pretty decent, would cost me almost that to get back and there on the bus. Thank you for that.

So Peugeot customer service told me, no recalls due, lie. Couldn't get part number for the injectors, lie. So that went well!

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Injectors

Post by GiveMeABreak »

HI Colin

So there is a difference between a recall and an after sales campaign.

A recall is a bit more drastic, usually on safety grounds where they recall all vehicles between a certain build date for a particular issue and VOSA are usually notified if it's a safety issue.

An after sales campaign is more like when they realise there is a known problem (often via customer complaints or feedback over a period) with a system and opt to make a repair probably before it becomes a major issue and for the sake of customer relations sort of thing.

I just wish they had done that with the steering racks on the C5 X7 that just about all of them fail on. I'm on my third!

Anyway glad that was of use for you. Do let us know how you get on.

colinsunderland
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Re: Injectors

Post by colinsunderland »

Thanks very much for all your help Marc

So having seen the prices of used injectors on Ebay, I'll get them cleaned and tested before buying any. Of course the Bosch ones are about £25-30, these ones are £130 - 160 ish! Its only £260 for a recon one from eurocarparts