New Instrument cluster

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C5-NON
Donor 2020
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 May 2020, 21:28

New Instrument cluster

Unread post by C5-NON »

Hi,

Can someone advise, I read that changing the instrument cluster will take higher mileage from donor car, is this true or is it the BSI that stores the mileage?

Also if I opted for a brand new one, what should happen then? I assume it’s all pretty much plug and play with no coding required? I read some have different SW and HW version numbers, I assume the SW (software) has to match, but is the HW hardware? what should this relate to?

Cheers

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XUD9
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by XUD9 »

Yep - it's true. If you take instrument cluster from a car, that shows higher millage - the BSI will remember that value (the higher one) . No way to turn it back with Lexia (for example) to show less kilometres. Or at least not that easy...

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

C5-NON wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 20:53
Hi,

Can someone advise, I read that changing the instrument cluster will take higher mileage from donor car, is this true or is it the BSI that stores the mileage?

Also if I opted for a brand new one, what should happen then? I assume it’s all pretty much plug and play with no coding required? I read some have different SW and HW version numbers, I assume the SW (software) has to match, but is the HW hardware? what should this relate to?

Cheers
The mileage is stored in both the BSI and the ECU in the instrument cluster. So the readings will synchronise to the highest of the 2. That’s why fitting a new component of either of these will ensure the highest mileage of either is written to the other.

There is no facility in Diagbox or Lexia to change the odometer readings.

C5-NON
Donor 2020
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by C5-NON »

Thanks

So with a brand new one I should be safe. Is the software versions and hardware version numbers not really relevant?, i.e as long as I purchase one manufactured same year or later as the one installed in car now, it should be fine?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

No you really need the correct part number as different versions were manufactured for different engines and equipment.

For the latest up to date parts info from Citroen, please see below:
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Further Information

C5-NON
Donor 2020
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 May 2020, 21:28

Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by C5-NON »

Hi Marc,

please could you give the correct part number. My VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so you can use either:

Part 6103PT which was the pre-configured instrument panel that would of been originally fitted.
Part 6103PS or the replacement Part: 9809868180 would of been the part ordered that needs configuring to your car.
non Instrument.PNG
So any of these part numbers.

The 6103PT and 6103PS numbers are PSA references if being ordered from Citroen and may not have this part number stamped on the unit. If you are interested in or have bought one already, locate the long 98******** number and let me know what it is and I can tell you if it is correct or suitable.

If you get a used one that is different, it may need configuring with Diagbox. I can help you with setting the correct parameters up, if you have access to Diagbox.

Whatever you do - be very gentle with your original as these are about £880 to replace new minus fitting. But these rarely have any issues so I think your problem may lie elsewhere to be honest.

Edit:
Please also note that the original configured part (6103PT) is no longer available from Citroen to order new, so if you are sure you need to replace it, then use one of the other 2 part numbers, and then it will need configuring for the correct language and other options as I mentioned.

C5-NON
Donor 2020
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Joined: 26 May 2020, 21:28

Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by C5-NON »

Hi,

thanks

So if i get a new one, how would it be configured? just through Diagbox? or would it work straight away?

I have tried to move the dials through Diagbox, the fuel gauge just doesnt move at all, and speedo doe not settle on 0mph. I have spoken to an auto electrican, and he says he has seen them go in the past, so said to send it off for repair or replace. I would imagine the fact the fuel gauge cant be moved at all under test it must be mechanical? i under this is controlled by a signal from both the fuel sender to BSI and then the BSI send another signal to the Gauge? do you think this could be some communication issue?

Hell Razor5543
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by Hell Razor5543 »

Silly, but possibly relevant question. Can DiagBox 'see' how much fuel there is in the tank (if everything is working properly)? If it normally can, and on this occasion it does not, that would help to track down the fault.

C5-NON
Donor 2020
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by C5-NON »

Hi,

Yes, i can read the fuel correctly in diagbox, also the digital readout on the dash is showing correct miles to empty. I assume there must be two sensors on the tank? i am not sure if the signal for tank comes just from the fuel sender or the is somehow calculated differently?

wheeler
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by wheeler »

There a loads of companies out there that repair instrument clusters this> http://www.clusterrepairsuk.co.uk/repairlist is just one of them, this one doesn't specifically list the X7 C5 but does say they do all makes & models.
If you can actuate the gauge with diagbox it just sounds like a failed stepper motor to me, they used to fail all the time on the mk1 C5 for the speedo & was a fairly easy DIY repair.
I've not had an X7 one apart.

C5-NON
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by C5-NON »

Thanks, yes, however could it be a communication fault? It’s the fuel gauge that won’t move and speedo doesn’t settle at 0 mph even when switched off. This makes me think it’s mechanical but others suggest not?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

Bear in mind that regarding the fuel level display - the operation works as follows:

When the car is not being driven:
15 seconds after the ignition is switched off, the fuel level is measured and recorded. (Tank)
The fuel level displayed on the instrument panel is also recorded. (Inst. Panel)
When the ignition is switched back on, the fuel level is measured again. (Tank)
If the measured value is different from the value saved the last time the ignition was turned off, the built-in systems interface (BSI) deduces that the fuel tank has been refilled and the new volume of fuel is recognised.
If both values are identical, the built-in systems interface (BSI) takes the last fuel value displayed on the instrument panel.
The instrument panel displays the fuel level on the fuel level indicator.

So the fuel reading display on the instrument panel will remain the same as previously recorded if no fuel has been added to the tank since the vehicle was last switched off.

Not everyone knows how these work, so it could lead to a perceived fault when it is normal operation. But of course it should adjust if fuel has been added to the tank of course.

As for the instrument panel in general, there are some test you can run on it using Diagbox. Run a global test, then select the instrument panel ECU and confirm, then look at the parameters to see what sort of things you can check.

The instrument panel does have an autodiagnostic function, but these unfortunately only cover the following:
  • Braking fault
  • ABS fault
  • Electronic stability control (ESP)
  • Stop warning lamp
  • Service
  • Low fuel level
  • Electric parking brake (Depending on the versions)
  • Coolant temperature
  • Oil pressure warning
  • EOBD engine autodiagnostics system
... and the following systems:
  • Passenger’s airbag deactivation
  • Brake fluid warning information not available
  • Anti-lock braking system (ABS) fault information not available
  • Power steering fault information not available
  • Electronic brake force distribution fault information not available
So although it will check the low fuel lamp it won't detect an underlying problem in the needles on the gauges and the same goes for the speedometer and tachometer.

C5-NON
Donor 2020
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 May 2020, 21:28

Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by C5-NON »

thanks Marc,

Yes, i have run Diagbox, no fault comes up, also selected the COMBINE unit, which allows testing of the each dial Speed, RPM, Fuel. Fuel just does not move at all. The other two do move under test, however Speed never settles at ZERO. RPM plays up now and again, but seems to sort itself out after a diagbox run of its full spectrum of readings through the range. Seems to point to mechanical failure.

However, what config do i need to do with completely new unit? can all be done via diagbox?

wheeler
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Re: New Instrument cluster

Unread post by wheeler »

If there is any programming to be done it can be done with diagbox, I cant imagine there will be more than a handful of options to configure. usually service intervals & possibly if its manual or auto gearbox. If you go into the programming/configuration menu in diagbox you will see the options, you should do this anyway with the original so that you can configure the new one the same.
The mileage is transferred automatically as soon as you plug it in.