C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

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C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by Bingbong »

Hi, car has stopped running, I’m trying to check the chain and head but struggling to remove head? Does the engine need to come out? Or are there some bolts I’m missing? Thanks

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I'll need your VIN to determine exactly which of the 3 variants you have.

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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by Bingbong »

Hi, thanks for your reply, vin number is
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Thank you

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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by Bingbong »

Also need the timing chain set up for this model too please, I’m struggling to find anything online about this model? Plenty on the hdi tho! Thanks in advance for your help, it’s my mums car and she’s disabled so we are trying to get it sorted for her

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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok so you have a C3 Picasso 1.4 i VVT 16v 95.

This has a timing chain, but is a complex engine and the procedures are very lengthy to be honest. Even setting the valve timing, you will need camshaft, exhaust & inlet immobilisation & setting tools, crankshaft setting rod, dummy timing chain tensioner, inclinometer & metrology set square.....

Removing the head (on vehicle) requires draining the cooling system, removing the exhaust manifold, the thermostat, the inlet manifold, the timing chain and spark plugs...

It should be noted that the timing components (camshafts, bearings, valve rockers, tappets, springs, valves, valve seals) cannot be replaced. Any incident on one of these components requires replacement of the entire cylinder head.

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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by Bingbong »

Hi thanks for reply, it’s a VTR + 16v

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

VTR+ is only the trim level. Your engine is as I have listed it from your VIN direct from Citroen. It has the EP3 Injection Engine which is a 'Prince' engine developed by PSA and BMW.

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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by Bingbong »

Ok, I obviously have no idea! It just won’t start, been told the chains jumped? Trying to strip it to find out 👍🏻

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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok so what I can tell you is that it is quite a big operation if the timing chain has been found to be lengthened.

The procedures are separate but there is one for the valve timing checking I can put up for you if this is what you need.

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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by Bingbong »

Thank you, I need the settings for replacing the timing chain, the chain is solid still but the dots are out on the top? It ran fine before, got left for 3 weeks (corona virus) and then wouldn’t start? The compression is low and the waters vanished? Thanks again

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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here is the checking procedure for your Picasso:

Checking - Setting the Valve Timing EP Engine - Indirect Injection

Tooling
C3 Pic A.PNG
C3 Pic A.PNG (57.06 KiB) Viewed 28 times
C3 Pic B.PNG
C3 Pic B.PNG (19.14 KiB) Viewed 28 times
[0197] Camshaft immobilisation and setting tool
[0197-A1] Exhaust camshaft immobilisation and setting tool
[0197-A3] Inlet camshaft immobilisation and setting tool
"a": Fixing bolt of the tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3]
[0197-BZ] crankshaft setting rod
C3 Pic C.PNG
C3 Pic C.PNG (46.03 KiB) Viewed 28 times
C3 Pic D.PNG
C3 Pic D.PNG (36.21 KiB) Viewed 28 times
0197-M Dummy timing chain tensioner1376-A Inclinometer
Necessary equipment:
  • Metrology set square (Type SAM E100)
  • Torque screwdriver (Type Facom A.301MT)
Checking the Setting
Check of the locking of the dephased pulley (Inlet).
Check of the locking of the dephased pulley (Exhaust).
Setting the crankshaft.

Measurement of the inlet camshaft setting angle using the inclinometer [1376-A].
Setting correct: Fit the cylinder head cover .
Setting not correct: Check of the lengthening of the chain.

Measurement of the lengthening of the chain.
Lengthening correct: Repeat the procedcure "setting the timing".
Lengthening not correct: Repeat the procedure "removal-refitting of the timing" replacing the components indicated.
Refitting of the cylinder head cover.

Removing
Place the vehicle on a two-post ramp.
Disconnect the ancillaries battery following the (BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure)

Remove:
  • The front right wheel
  • The protective panel under the engine
  • The front right mud guard
  • The cylinder head cover
Checking the Dephased Pulleys
Identification of the camshaft pulleys
C3 Pic E.PNG
IN: Inlet.
EX: Exhaust.

CAUTION: Note the position of the camshaft pulleys.
CAUTION: The two camshaft pulleys have different markings.
Checking the locking of the dephasers
C3 Pic F.PNG
Make 2 engine revolutions by means of the screw (1) so as to lock the camshaft dephaser.

Locking the inlet camshaft dephaser
C3 Pic G.PNG
CAUTION: Do not make the engine turn via the camshafts.

N.B.: The dephaser is locked when the pulley rotates at the same time as the camshaft.
Check that the dephaser remains locked and solid with the camshaft by moving the camshaft gently in the 2 directions (at "b").

If this is not the case, turn the inlet camshaft anticlockwise in the direction of the arrow (at "c") to the internal stop of the dephaser (at "a") (maximum travel 35°).

N.B.: In the event that the dephaser will not lock mechanically, replace the camshaft dephaser (Dephaser viewed from the timing end).

Locking the exhaust camshaft dephaser
C3 Pic H.PNG
CAUTION: Do not make the engine turn via the camshafts.

N.B.: The dephaser is locked when the pulley rotates at the same time as the camshaft.
Check that the dephaser remains locked and solid with the camshaft by moving the camshaft gently in the 2 directions (at "d").

If this is not the case, action the inlet camshaft clockwise following the arrow ("f") as far as the dephaser’s internal stop (at "e") (maximum travel 30°).

N.B.: In the event that the dephaser will not lock mechanically ; Replace the camshaft dephaser (Dephaser viewed from the timing end).

Timing: Crankshaft
C3 Pic I.PNG
CAUTION: When the engine is pegged, the pistons are in mid-travel.
Remove the 2 spark plugs.
Turn the crankshaft clockwise using bolt (1) to the engine flywheel pinning position: The rounded edge of the camshaft indexing has to be oriented downwards (at "h").

CAUTION: Check the position of the pistons at mid travel using 2 gauges of identical length ("welding rod" type") (at "g"). The rods must protrude by the same length.

Position the rod [0197-BZ] in the location (at "j") situated on the crankshaft main bearing caps casting.
Peg the engine flywheel (at "j") using the pin [0197-BZ].
Check that the engine is pinned correctly by trying to turn the bolt (1) clockwise and anticlockwise, using a pipe spanner.

CAUTION: If the pinning hole is passed, never go backwards; turn the engine clockwise again through 2 revolutions.

Measurement of the inlet camshaft setting angle
C3 Pic J.PNG
Measurement A: Position the set square type SAM E100 on the cylinder head, timing side.
Position the inclinometer [1376-A] on the set square and set to zero by pressing the "Calibrate" button .

Measurement B: Tilt the inclinometer and the set square by 90° clockwise and set the assembly flush on the vertical plane of the inlet camshaft indexing zone (at "k").

CAUTION: Do not change reference face; do not turn the inclinometer/set square assembly in the opposite direction.
Read the angle given: [89 ; 91°].
If the measurement is not within the ranges above, the setting in not correct, go to stage: "Measurement of the lengthening of the chain".
If the measurement is within the ranges above, the setting is correct, remove the engine flywheel setting rod; Refit.

CAUTION: Follow the instructions for refitting the cylinder head cover at the end of this procedure.
C3 Pic K.PNG
CAUTION: The display of the inclinometer does not indicate a value above 90 degrees.
  • "C" (Ankle of advance): The value of the inclinometer is equal to the actual angle .
  • "D" (Perpendicular angle): The value of the inclinometer is equal to the actual angle .
  • "E" (Retard angle): The value of the inclinometer is not equal to the actual angle .
If the midpoint "D" is exceeded:
  • The inclinometer displays the reverse angle
  • The direction of reading of the value is reversed
  • The direction of the arrows is reversed
Actual angle "E" = 180° - Value read "E" degrees.
E.g.: Actual angle "E" = 180 - 89 = 91°.

Measurement of the lengthening of the chain
Removal of the camshaft pulley bolts
C3 Pic L.PNG
Position the camshaft setting tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3].
Tighten the tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3], using the bolts (2).
The tools must be firmly flush on the cylinder head (at "p","n").
N.B.: To facilitate assembling of the setting tools, rotate the camshafts slightly (clockwise and anti-clockwise) (at "l","m") using a 27 mm combination spanner.
Assemble the tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3] using the fixing bolt of the tools (a).
Slacken the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4).

CAUTION: Retighten the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4); Reslacken the camshaft pulley screws by 90°; The pulleys should rotate freely but be flush.
C3 Pic M.PNG
CAUTION: Do not hold the camshafts by means of the 27 mm hexagonal spanner (at "l", "m"); Use the flats of the setting zone (at "b", "d").

If the camshaft setting tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3] cannot be fitted. support the camshafts using a 30 mm combination spanner (at "b","d").

N.B.: Operations requiring two operators.

Slacken the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4).

CAUTION: Retighten the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4). Reslacken the camshaft pulley screws by 90° - the pulleys should rotate freely but be flush.

Removing: Timing chain tensioner
C3 Pic N.PNG
CAUTION: Do not remove the timing chain tensioner (7) without the crankshaft and camshaft setting tools; Risk of jumping a tooth on the timing chain.

Remove:
  • The bolts (6)
  • The throttle unit (5)
Disconnect the connector (at "q").
Remove the timing chain (7) tensioner.

Check the condition of the timing chain tensioner (7). Action the piston manually
If the piston is seized, replace the timing chain tensioner (7).

Fitting the dummy timing chain tensioner
C3 Pic O.PNG
CAUTION: Oil the threads of the bolt ("s").

Tighten the body of the dummy timing chain tensioner [0197-M] on the cylinder head .
Tighten bolt ("s") of the dummy timing chain tensioner to the specified torque until it comes into contact (at "t") with the chain tensioner guide (8); Tightening torque: 0,06 daNm.
Lock the assembly by means of a lock nut ("r").

hecking the wear of the timing chain assembly
C3 Pic P.PNG
CAUTION: The timing chain may jump a tooth while you are removing the dummy chain tensioner, if the tools pegging the camshafts [0197-A1], [0197-A3] have been taken away.

Remove the dummy timing chain tensioner and read the dimension "F" between the bearing face of the body of the timing chain tensioner [0197-M] and the end of the bolt ("s").

If the dimension is less than or equal to 73,5 mm: The timing chain assembly has no wear; Apply the repair procedure: Setting the valve timing.

If the dimension is greater than 73,5 mm, apply the procedure "removal-refitting of the timing chain" with its replacement.

N.B.: In the 2 cases, refit the dummy timing chain tensioner [0197-M].

Refitting: Cylinder head cover (If setting correct)
C3 Pic Q.PNG
CAUTION: Systematically replace the seal of the valve cover .

Clean the sealing face on the valve cover using a clean cloth.
Clean the old sealing beads (at "u").
Apply a sealing bead 20 mm long and 5 mm wide (at "u") on each side of the double bearing.

Refit:
  • The cylinder head cover with a new seal
  • The bolts (Cylinder head cover)
CAUTION: Tighten the cylinder head cover bolts in the order shown.

Refit:
  • The front right mud guard
  • The protective panel under the engine
  • The front right wheel
  • The vehicle to its wheels
Follow the reconnection part of BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure


Tightening Torques
C3 Pic R.PNG
ReferenceDesignationTightening torques
(1)bolts (Cylinder head cover) (*)Pre-tighten to 0,2 daNm
Tighten to 1 da.Nm
(2)bolts (Cylinder head) (*)Pre-tighten to 3 daNm
Angular tightening to 90°
(3)bolts (Coolant outlet housing )1 daNm
(4)bolts ( vacuum pump)0,9 daNm
(5)Studs (Exhaust manifold)1,5 daNm
(6)bolts (Cylinder head / Cylinder block ) (*)Pre-tighten to 1,5 daNm
Angular tightening to 90°
(7)Spark plugs2,3 daNm
(8)bolts (Cylinder head / Cylinder block ) (*)2,5 daNm
Angular tightening to 30°
(*) Follow the tightening sequence
Order of tightening: Cylinder head cover
C3 Pic S.PNG
(1) Cylinder head cover securing bolt.

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xantia_v6
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help

Post by xantia_v6 »

The case history and symptoms here seem a little strange.

This is a chain-timed engine, and I don't think that it is possible for the chain to jump a tooth unless the tensioner is completely broken. The camshaft sprockets are bolted to the camshafts with no keyway, so it is possible for them to slip, but usually they slip just a little, causing poor running and engine management fault codes.

Can you give us more information about the compression test? How low was the compression, and was it low on all cylinders?

These engines have hydraulic tappets, which can lose their oil when sitting for a period, causing low compression on one or two cylinders, but this sorts itself out once the engine has started.

If the problem is really with valve timing (which I am skeptical of), the timing should be far enough out that you can eyeball the relative positions of the camshafts with the top cover off without requiring the special tools, but you should rotate the engine to the point where the crankshaft locking tool can be inserted.