C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
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C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Hi, car has stopped running, I’m trying to check the chain and head but struggling to remove head? Does the engine need to come out? Or are there some bolts I’m missing? Thanks
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
I'll need your VIN to determine exactly which of the 3 variants you have.
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Hi, thanks for your reply, vin number is
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Thank you
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Thank you
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Also need the timing chain set up for this model too please, I’m struggling to find anything online about this model? Plenty on the hdi tho! Thanks in advance for your help, it’s my mums car and she’s disabled so we are trying to get it sorted for her
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Ok so you have a C3 Picasso 1.4 i VVT 16v 95.
This has a timing chain, but is a complex engine and the procedures are very lengthy to be honest. Even setting the valve timing, you will need camshaft, exhaust & inlet immobilisation & setting tools, crankshaft setting rod, dummy timing chain tensioner, inclinometer & metrology set square.....
Removing the head (on vehicle) requires draining the cooling system, removing the exhaust manifold, the thermostat, the inlet manifold, the timing chain and spark plugs...
It should be noted that the timing components (camshafts, bearings, valve rockers, tappets, springs, valves, valve seals) cannot be replaced. Any incident on one of these components requires replacement of the entire cylinder head.
This has a timing chain, but is a complex engine and the procedures are very lengthy to be honest. Even setting the valve timing, you will need camshaft, exhaust & inlet immobilisation & setting tools, crankshaft setting rod, dummy timing chain tensioner, inclinometer & metrology set square.....
Removing the head (on vehicle) requires draining the cooling system, removing the exhaust manifold, the thermostat, the inlet manifold, the timing chain and spark plugs...
It should be noted that the timing components (camshafts, bearings, valve rockers, tappets, springs, valves, valve seals) cannot be replaced. Any incident on one of these components requires replacement of the entire cylinder head.
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Hi thanks for reply, it’s a VTR + 16v
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
VTR+ is only the trim level. Your engine is as I have listed it from your VIN direct from Citroen. It has the EP3 Injection Engine which is a 'Prince' engine developed by PSA and BMW.
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Ok, I obviously have no idea! It just won’t start, been told the chains jumped? Trying to strip it to find out
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Ok so what I can tell you is that it is quite a big operation if the timing chain has been found to be lengthened.
The procedures are separate but there is one for the valve timing checking I can put up for you if this is what you need.
The procedures are separate but there is one for the valve timing checking I can put up for you if this is what you need.
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Marc
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Thank you, I need the settings for replacing the timing chain, the chain is solid still but the dots are out on the top? It ran fine before, got left for 3 weeks (corona virus) and then wouldn’t start? The compression is low and the waters vanished? Thanks again
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Here is the checking procedure for your Picasso:
Checking - Setting the Valve Timing EP Engine - Indirect Injection
Tooling
Necessary equipment:
Check of the locking of the dephased pulley (Inlet).
Check of the locking of the dephased pulley (Exhaust).
Setting the crankshaft.
Measurement of the inlet camshaft setting angle using the inclinometer [1376-A].
Setting correct: Fit the cylinder head cover .
Setting not correct: Check of the lengthening of the chain.
Measurement of the lengthening of the chain.
Lengthening correct: Repeat the procedcure "setting the timing".
Lengthening not correct: Repeat the procedure "removal-refitting of the timing" replacing the components indicated.
Refitting of the cylinder head cover.
Removing
Place the vehicle on a two-post ramp.
Disconnect the ancillaries battery following the (BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure)
Remove:
Identification of the camshaft pulleys
Checking the locking of the dephasers
Locking the inlet camshaft dephaser
CAUTION: Do not make the engine turn via the camshafts.
N.B.: The dephaser is locked when the pulley rotates at the same time as the camshaft.
Check that the dephaser remains locked and solid with the camshaft by moving the camshaft gently in the 2 directions (at "b").
If this is not the case, turn the inlet camshaft anticlockwise in the direction of the arrow (at "c") to the internal stop of the dephaser (at "a") (maximum travel 35°).
N.B.: In the event that the dephaser will not lock mechanically, replace the camshaft dephaser (Dephaser viewed from the timing end).
Locking the exhaust camshaft dephaser
CAUTION: Do not make the engine turn via the camshafts.
N.B.: The dephaser is locked when the pulley rotates at the same time as the camshaft.
Check that the dephaser remains locked and solid with the camshaft by moving the camshaft gently in the 2 directions (at "d").
If this is not the case, action the inlet camshaft clockwise following the arrow ("f") as far as the dephaser’s internal stop (at "e") (maximum travel 30°).
N.B.: In the event that the dephaser will not lock mechanically ; Replace the camshaft dephaser (Dephaser viewed from the timing end).
Timing: Crankshaft
CAUTION: When the engine is pegged, the pistons are in mid-travel.
Remove the 2 spark plugs.
Turn the crankshaft clockwise using bolt (1) to the engine flywheel pinning position: The rounded edge of the camshaft indexing has to be oriented downwards (at "h").
CAUTION: Check the position of the pistons at mid travel using 2 gauges of identical length ("welding rod" type") (at "g"). The rods must protrude by the same length.
Position the rod [0197-BZ] in the location (at "j") situated on the crankshaft main bearing caps casting.
Peg the engine flywheel (at "j") using the pin [0197-BZ].
Check that the engine is pinned correctly by trying to turn the bolt (1) clockwise and anticlockwise, using a pipe spanner.
CAUTION: If the pinning hole is passed, never go backwards; turn the engine clockwise again through 2 revolutions.
Measurement of the inlet camshaft setting angle
Measurement A: Position the set square type SAM E100 on the cylinder head, timing side.
Position the inclinometer [1376-A] on the set square and set to zero by pressing the "Calibrate" button .
Measurement B: Tilt the inclinometer and the set square by 90° clockwise and set the assembly flush on the vertical plane of the inlet camshaft indexing zone (at "k").
CAUTION: Do not change reference face; do not turn the inclinometer/set square assembly in the opposite direction.
Read the angle given: [89 ; 91°].
If the measurement is not within the ranges above, the setting in not correct, go to stage: "Measurement of the lengthening of the chain".
If the measurement is within the ranges above, the setting is correct, remove the engine flywheel setting rod; Refit.
CAUTION: Follow the instructions for refitting the cylinder head cover at the end of this procedure.
CAUTION: The display of the inclinometer does not indicate a value above 90 degrees.
E.g.: Actual angle "E" = 180 - 89 = 91°.
Measurement of the lengthening of the chain
Removal of the camshaft pulley bolts
N.B.: To facilitate assembling of the setting tools, rotate the camshafts slightly (clockwise and anti-clockwise) (at "l","m") using a 27 mm combination spanner.
Assemble the tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3] using the fixing bolt of the tools (a).
Slacken the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4).
CAUTION: Retighten the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4); Reslacken the camshaft pulley screws by 90°; The pulleys should rotate freely but be flush.
CAUTION: Do not hold the camshafts by means of the 27 mm hexagonal spanner (at "l", "m"); Use the flats of the setting zone (at "b", "d").
If the camshaft setting tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3] cannot be fitted. support the camshafts using a 30 mm combination spanner (at "b","d").
N.B.: Operations requiring two operators.
Slacken the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4).
CAUTION: Retighten the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4). Reslacken the camshaft pulley screws by 90° - the pulleys should rotate freely but be flush.
Removing: Timing chain tensioner
CAUTION: Do not remove the timing chain tensioner (7) without the crankshaft and camshaft setting tools; Risk of jumping a tooth on the timing chain.
Remove:
Remove the timing chain (7) tensioner.
Check the condition of the timing chain tensioner (7). Action the piston manually
If the piston is seized, replace the timing chain tensioner (7).
Fitting the dummy timing chain tensioner
CAUTION: Oil the threads of the bolt ("s").
Tighten the body of the dummy timing chain tensioner [0197-M] on the cylinder head .
Tighten bolt ("s") of the dummy timing chain tensioner to the specified torque until it comes into contact (at "t") with the chain tensioner guide (8); Tightening torque: 0,06 daNm.
Lock the assembly by means of a lock nut ("r").
hecking the wear of the timing chain assembly
CAUTION: The timing chain may jump a tooth while you are removing the dummy chain tensioner, if the tools pegging the camshafts [0197-A1], [0197-A3] have been taken away.
Remove the dummy timing chain tensioner and read the dimension "F" between the bearing face of the body of the timing chain tensioner [0197-M] and the end of the bolt ("s").
If the dimension is less than or equal to 73,5 mm: The timing chain assembly has no wear; Apply the repair procedure: Setting the valve timing.
If the dimension is greater than 73,5 mm, apply the procedure "removal-refitting of the timing chain" with its replacement.
N.B.: In the 2 cases, refit the dummy timing chain tensioner [0197-M].
Refitting: Cylinder head cover (If setting correct)
CAUTION: Systematically replace the seal of the valve cover .
Clean the sealing face on the valve cover using a clean cloth.
Clean the old sealing beads (at "u").
Apply a sealing bead 20 mm long and 5 mm wide (at "u") on each side of the double bearing.
Refit:
Refit:
Tightening Torques
Order of tightening: Cylinder head cover
Checking - Setting the Valve Timing EP Engine - Indirect Injection
Tooling
[0197] Camshaft immobilisation and setting tool [0197-A1] Exhaust camshaft immobilisation and setting tool [0197-A3] Inlet camshaft immobilisation and setting tool "a": Fixing bolt of the tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3] | [0197-BZ] crankshaft setting rod |
0197-M Dummy timing chain tensioner | 1376-A Inclinometer |
- Metrology set square (Type SAM E100)
- Torque screwdriver (Type Facom A.301MT)
Check of the locking of the dephased pulley (Inlet).
Check of the locking of the dephased pulley (Exhaust).
Setting the crankshaft.
Measurement of the inlet camshaft setting angle using the inclinometer [1376-A].
Setting correct: Fit the cylinder head cover .
Setting not correct: Check of the lengthening of the chain.
Measurement of the lengthening of the chain.
Lengthening correct: Repeat the procedcure "setting the timing".
Lengthening not correct: Repeat the procedure "removal-refitting of the timing" replacing the components indicated.
Refitting of the cylinder head cover.
Removing
Place the vehicle on a two-post ramp.
Disconnect the ancillaries battery following the (BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure)
Remove:
- The front right wheel
- The protective panel under the engine
- The front right mud guard
- The cylinder head cover
Identification of the camshaft pulleys
IN: Inlet. EX: Exhaust. CAUTION: Note the position of the camshaft pulleys. CAUTION: The two camshaft pulleys have different markings. |
Make 2 engine revolutions by means of the screw (1) so as to lock the camshaft dephaser. |
Locking the inlet camshaft dephaser
N.B.: The dephaser is locked when the pulley rotates at the same time as the camshaft.
Check that the dephaser remains locked and solid with the camshaft by moving the camshaft gently in the 2 directions (at "b").
If this is not the case, turn the inlet camshaft anticlockwise in the direction of the arrow (at "c") to the internal stop of the dephaser (at "a") (maximum travel 35°).
N.B.: In the event that the dephaser will not lock mechanically, replace the camshaft dephaser (Dephaser viewed from the timing end).
Locking the exhaust camshaft dephaser
N.B.: The dephaser is locked when the pulley rotates at the same time as the camshaft.
Check that the dephaser remains locked and solid with the camshaft by moving the camshaft gently in the 2 directions (at "d").
If this is not the case, action the inlet camshaft clockwise following the arrow ("f") as far as the dephaser’s internal stop (at "e") (maximum travel 30°).
N.B.: In the event that the dephaser will not lock mechanically ; Replace the camshaft dephaser (Dephaser viewed from the timing end).
Timing: Crankshaft
Remove the 2 spark plugs.
Turn the crankshaft clockwise using bolt (1) to the engine flywheel pinning position: The rounded edge of the camshaft indexing has to be oriented downwards (at "h").
CAUTION: Check the position of the pistons at mid travel using 2 gauges of identical length ("welding rod" type") (at "g"). The rods must protrude by the same length.
Position the rod [0197-BZ] in the location (at "j") situated on the crankshaft main bearing caps casting.
Peg the engine flywheel (at "j") using the pin [0197-BZ].
Check that the engine is pinned correctly by trying to turn the bolt (1) clockwise and anticlockwise, using a pipe spanner.
CAUTION: If the pinning hole is passed, never go backwards; turn the engine clockwise again through 2 revolutions.
Measurement of the inlet camshaft setting angle
Position the inclinometer [1376-A] on the set square and set to zero by pressing the "Calibrate" button .
Measurement B: Tilt the inclinometer and the set square by 90° clockwise and set the assembly flush on the vertical plane of the inlet camshaft indexing zone (at "k").
CAUTION: Do not change reference face; do not turn the inclinometer/set square assembly in the opposite direction.
Read the angle given: [89 ; 91°].
If the measurement is not within the ranges above, the setting in not correct, go to stage: "Measurement of the lengthening of the chain".
If the measurement is within the ranges above, the setting is correct, remove the engine flywheel setting rod; Refit.
CAUTION: Follow the instructions for refitting the cylinder head cover at the end of this procedure.
- "C" (Ankle of advance): The value of the inclinometer is equal to the actual angle .
- "D" (Perpendicular angle): The value of the inclinometer is equal to the actual angle .
- "E" (Retard angle): The value of the inclinometer is not equal to the actual angle .
- The inclinometer displays the reverse angle
- The direction of reading of the value is reversed
- The direction of the arrows is reversed
E.g.: Actual angle "E" = 180 - 89 = 91°.
Measurement of the lengthening of the chain
Removal of the camshaft pulley bolts
Position the camshaft setting tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3]. Tighten the tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3], using the bolts (2). The tools must be firmly flush on the cylinder head (at "p","n"). |
Assemble the tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3] using the fixing bolt of the tools (a).
Slacken the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4).
CAUTION: Retighten the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4); Reslacken the camshaft pulley screws by 90°; The pulleys should rotate freely but be flush.
If the camshaft setting tools [0197-A1], [0197-A3] cannot be fitted. support the camshafts using a 30 mm combination spanner (at "b","d").
N.B.: Operations requiring two operators.
Slacken the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4).
CAUTION: Retighten the camshaft pulley screws (3), (4). Reslacken the camshaft pulley screws by 90° - the pulleys should rotate freely but be flush.
Removing: Timing chain tensioner
Remove:
- The bolts (6)
- The throttle unit (5)
Remove the timing chain (7) tensioner.
Check the condition of the timing chain tensioner (7). Action the piston manually
If the piston is seized, replace the timing chain tensioner (7).
Fitting the dummy timing chain tensioner
Tighten the body of the dummy timing chain tensioner [0197-M] on the cylinder head .
Tighten bolt ("s") of the dummy timing chain tensioner to the specified torque until it comes into contact (at "t") with the chain tensioner guide (8); Tightening torque: 0,06 daNm.
Lock the assembly by means of a lock nut ("r").
hecking the wear of the timing chain assembly
Remove the dummy timing chain tensioner and read the dimension "F" between the bearing face of the body of the timing chain tensioner [0197-M] and the end of the bolt ("s").
If the dimension is less than or equal to 73,5 mm: The timing chain assembly has no wear; Apply the repair procedure: Setting the valve timing.
If the dimension is greater than 73,5 mm, apply the procedure "removal-refitting of the timing chain" with its replacement.
N.B.: In the 2 cases, refit the dummy timing chain tensioner [0197-M].
Refitting: Cylinder head cover (If setting correct)
Clean the sealing face on the valve cover using a clean cloth.
Clean the old sealing beads (at "u").
Apply a sealing bead 20 mm long and 5 mm wide (at "u") on each side of the double bearing.
Refit:
- The cylinder head cover with a new seal
- The bolts (Cylinder head cover)
Refit:
- The front right mud guard
- The protective panel under the engine
- The front right wheel
- The vehicle to its wheels
Tightening Torques
|
(1) Cylinder head cover securing bolt. |
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
The case history and symptoms here seem a little strange.
This is a chain-timed engine, and I don't think that it is possible for the chain to jump a tooth unless the tensioner is completely broken. The camshaft sprockets are bolted to the camshafts with no keyway, so it is possible for them to slip, but usually they slip just a little, causing poor running and engine management fault codes.
Can you give us more information about the compression test? How low was the compression, and was it low on all cylinders?
These engines have hydraulic tappets, which can lose their oil when sitting for a period, causing low compression on one or two cylinders, but this sorts itself out once the engine has started.
If the problem is really with valve timing (which I am skeptical of), the timing should be far enough out that you can eyeball the relative positions of the camshafts with the top cover off without requiring the special tools, but you should rotate the engine to the point where the crankshaft locking tool can be inserted.
This is a chain-timed engine, and I don't think that it is possible for the chain to jump a tooth unless the tensioner is completely broken. The camshaft sprockets are bolted to the camshafts with no keyway, so it is possible for them to slip, but usually they slip just a little, causing poor running and engine management fault codes.
Can you give us more information about the compression test? How low was the compression, and was it low on all cylinders?
These engines have hydraulic tappets, which can lose their oil when sitting for a period, causing low compression on one or two cylinders, but this sorts itself out once the engine has started.
If the problem is really with valve timing (which I am skeptical of), the timing should be far enough out that you can eyeball the relative positions of the camshafts with the top cover off without requiring the special tools, but you should rotate the engine to the point where the crankshaft locking tool can be inserted.
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTR+ engine help
Marc,GiveMeABreak wrote: ↑15 May 2020, 14:14 VTR+ is only the trim level. Your engine is as I have listed it from your VIN direct from Citroen. It has the EP3 Injection Engine which is a 'Prince' engine developed by PSA and BMW.
This is an interference engine isn't it? You don't want to know why I asked... :/
Thanks
Mike