Identifying VIN

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Injection
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Identifying VIN

Post by Injection »

Hi there!

I'm in a situation where I have no original VIN of the car but hopefully the engine's and transmission's serials match and could lead to identifying the original VIN of the car. I know that this might be a lot to ask, but hey, you never know before a few old FCF members tell you it's not possible that way.

Anyways here are my markings from the engine and the gearbox. Oh, of course I have my tire pressure label too.

Image
Engine:
"KFW" "10FST5"
"PSA" "5436607"

Transmission
"20CP37"
"2026444"

Image
Tire label:
10740 - 2006.04.04
FV - Vigo, Spain
1st assembly line
0996
KDDC - Sable Bivouac

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It's not generally a good idea to knock the members on a first post!

As for the VIN - no. You may only be able to work out the first part of the VIN, but not the second (VIS) as that is part of a serial number that is designated at the factory and won't relate to the engine or gearbox.

If you have not found it on the bodywork anywhere or on the lower outside windscreen cut out, then you are out of luck I think. That's why it is stamped in several locations.

For a MK I or II Berlingo the VIN is also stamped on the front wing inner panel as shown:
Berlingo VIN.PNG

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white exec
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by white exec »

Insurance, taxation or inspection/testing documents might also carry the VIN.
As Marc says, it's usually marked a car in several places, as a stamped-on or engraved number.
MoT testers here always check it corresponds to the paperwork.

If you have a factory-made car where all the VIN markings have been removed, I guess the police might be interested! 8-[

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Injection
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by Injection »

Yeah, I kind of have guessed the first VIN part myself too but VIS is where the trouble starts.

I'm thinking, it might be something like "VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]***VIS**"/ES, correct?

Actually I have all VIN's but the one under the windscreen, but they don't match the tire sticker, nor engine. Car has had an collision in it's past where insurance has paid out its value. I too suspect that it has had a body swap but though the engine is carried in its paperwork, VIN is in its BSI and so on. I don't know, is there any lead I could be looking for anymore.

I guess that just a car owner asking the dealer or factory about its car would be pretty much ignored with that sort of application. Or what do you guys think?

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white exec
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by white exec »

VIN sometimes also engraved on the floor pan/cross-member, visible when a front seat is slid back, sometimes under a lift-off plastic cover. Done to double up on ID, and to avoid loss when a major front end repair is done. May not apply to PSA though.

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

On my C5 that VIN plate is under the back seats.

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by Stickyfinger »

Under the screen, on the right wing/chassis leg and as below. If it is not on the bulkhead as well then there is something VERY smelly about the car.
Attachments
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Injection wrote:
01 Apr 2020, 04:56
Yeah, I kind of have guessed the first VIN part myself too but VIS is where the trouble starts.

I'm thinking, it might be something like "VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]***VIS**"/ES, correct?

Actually I have all VIN's but the one under the windscreen, but they don't match the tire sticker, nor engine. Car has had an collision in it's past where insurance has paid out its value. I too suspect that it has had a body swap but though the engine is carried in its paperwork, VIN is in its BSI and so on. I don't know, is there any lead I could be looking for anymore.

I guess that just a car owner asking the dealer or factory about its car would be pretty much ignored with that sort of application. Or what do you guys think?
The last 8 alphanumeric is the VIS and that will not be on tyre labels or anything else. Only the factory allocate this code.

This is how a typical VIN is made up - and in this example I have used a fictitious C5 X7.

VIN Code as we refer to is: V F 7 R D R H R 8 9 L 0 0 0 0 0 0

VIN Part = V F 7 R D R H R 8

In this example:
Manufacturer Part
V - 'Car'
F - Country France in this case
7 - Manufacturer - 'Citroen' in this example

Vehicle Family
R - Citroen C5

Shape
D - 5 Door Saloon or W- 5 Door Estate / Tourer

Engine
RHR - Engine Code, in this case DW10BTED4 100 kW

Gearbox
8 - 6 Speed Manual Gearbox in this example

VIS - this is the next part of 8 characters & consists of 4 alphanumeric and 4 numeric 9L000000
9 - 2009 Year
L - Factory Code:- Rennes in this case

Code
The next 6 digits will relate to the car identifier itself.

I doubt they will hand over a VIN for obvious reasons - I suspect the VIN would always be the same for the vehicle as a whole and would not be changed even if the engine was swapped of course, - but you'd be expected to get some sort of invoice / documentation with the replacement engine to confirm its identification that you would normally keep in case you got stopped :-D

RichardW
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by RichardW »

If you can get access to a Diagbox system, and plug it in, it should read the VIN that is in the BSI.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by GiveMeABreak »

^ Good thinking Batman^ :-D

wheeler
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by wheeler »

Injection wrote:
01 Apr 2020, 04:56
VIN is in its BSI and so on. I don't know, is there any lead I could be looking for anymore.
Have they not already tried that??

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Injection
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by Injection »

Thanks for your input guys! It looks like I have actually seen/tried/looked for everything I have come up or anyone have suggested so far. Seems like basically only sources could be the guys who did the swap and factory that built it in the first place.

admiral51
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by admiral51 »

What part of Estonia are you in, we have a few members that have access to the equipment that can get you the vin ?

admiral51
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by admiral51 »

wheeler wrote:
01 Apr 2020, 13:52
Injection wrote:
01 Apr 2020, 04:56
VIN is in its BSI and so on. I don't know, is there any lead I could be looking for anymore.
Have they not already tried that??
It appears not looking back at posts, something basic that can be done with a Lexia hence my previous post as we have members from all over the world that have them and are more than happy to help :)

admiral51
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Re: Identifying VIN

Post by admiral51 »

Done a quick google search, 3 Estonian Citroen dealerships flag up, a quick diagnostic session will give the vin number and vehicle history if no forum members are available.
Not checked for indies but guess there will plenty