Peugeot Boxer - 2022 - 2.2 - Engine Rattle when cold at idle

[bobson6]

Hi, Facing a problem with my Peugeot boxer currently where when it is cold there is a rattle, it comes from the top of the engine but seems to come from the whole top of the block. Once the engine is warm there is no rattle/very little rattle. First thoughts were timing chain, but if you read on you will see why with think this is not the case.

My local garage are currently working on it, and they have currently done the following:

Oil and filter change - Genuine parts - The oil that came out was very thick and the last change was 30k before, certainly the worst oil i have seen come out of an engine. (only just bought the van - no rattle when bought) still rattles
Checked oil pressure, in doing so noticed that once the oil pressure switch was disconnected the rattle stops and the engine runs as it should
Replaced switch - rattle continues with new switch fitted
Disconnect the oil pressure regulator solenoid - rattle stops when disconnected, been replaced and still rattles

Now we are down to the oil pump - currently deciding whether to replace it.

Anyone had something similar, I have spoke to a mechanic from another garage who has had a similar issue with a vauxhall where the pump got replaced and the sound went and he feels this is the same.

[RichardW]

Sounds like you have answered your own question, but the only nagging doubt is that the oil pump is doing what it is supposed to, but the command is wrong. Potentially you could scope the signal, but need some reference data to know if it's right or not. Is this the Ford engine? Any hits if you search for similar on Transits?

[bobson6]

Yeah the euro 6 version, with the short chain between the two cams and then a dry cam belt.

Will try the transit search, i know that there was an oil pump recall on transits around 2015, which would be a very similar engine to this one.

My gut tells me its the pump, just hoping some others may have had something similar.

[bobson6]

So an update.

Sump off and the pump removed. No sludge or blocked pickup which is what we were expecting. New pumpnis being fitted. Get outcome of this today. Not convinced this will solve the rattle.

Some data, when the switch was taken out and a pressure gage put in its place the pressure was at 6bar which we are guessing is a default for the pump when the switch is not working but the rattle is gone. The pressure on diagnostics with the switch connected was around 1.2bar and it was rattling.

Now after doing a bit of Internet digging I came across a post about a blocked or stuck open pcv or ccv. Would a blocked ccv cause the top end to rattle after start? (Side note - when ibdid the oil change the oil cap had evidence of gunk build up on it to match the sludge coming out the sump) They have also found some evidence of oil leak around the fuel pump which could be due to increased pressure from ccv closed if I'm correct.

[PaulC5]

Low oil pressure or low flow can give a top end rattle. I had this years ago on a Fiat when the oil pump was worn out.

[bobson6]

Update
New pump fitted. Pressure is running the same as another van in the garage and the rattle is still there. When pressure switch disconnected the pressure jumps to 6 bar and rattle goes. This is the same on good van other than the rattle.

Also when the pressure switch is re connected it takes around 10 seconds for the rattle to re appear.

Any ideas where else to look. Had a suggestion that there could be a blockage in the oil way from the filter to the top of the engine?

[PaulC5]

How many miles has it done ? Have you had it checked by a Peugeot dealer to get a professional opinion - if not it might save a lot of money and effort trying things hoping to get it fixed by trial and error ?

[bobson6]

Peugeot just wanted to hook it up to a computer and not interested in diagnosing the issue. Said no codes it was fine.

Through working with the independent garage I went to we have isolated to the problem to either build up in oil galeries restricting flow to the head or at the extreme end the timing chain.

However when you first turn the key the engine runs fine and only after 5 to 10 seconds the rattle starts and remains until engine oil upto temp.

Readings for oil pressure fall inside demanded figures but this is read at the pump and would not be the figure for the head.

Wheb using a mechanics stethoscope there is alot of noise coming from the vacum pump, not sure this is the cause mind. Then there is no one place where the noise is from. Can be picked up across the whole head.

We still have it when we disconnect the oil pressure switch or the oil pressure regulator the noise stops.

Both these have been replaced along with pump.

[BramVan]

Did you eventually get this fixed then and if so: what was the fix?
Facing the same issue with my 2.2 BlueHDI 140PK boxer engine in my campervan.

[Romych]

Hello All ) Thanks a lot for useful information ! I have exactly the same issue with my new Boxer 2024. It has now just 10k km on the odo. Right from the dealership it produces that annoying rattling sound when cold at idle. Revving up to 1200 rom immediately removes the rattle, but it comes back within 10 seconds. When at operating temp the sound is also present but is not loud and overall negligible. The van runs quite Ok. Dealer says what there is no errors so nothing to be done and no reason to raise the guarantee case. Did oil and filter change at 3000 km with no effect. If disconnect the pressure regulator the rattle immediately goes and everything becomes as it should be: no rattle, the engine sounds very smooth. I suspect it can be hydraulic tappets noise: when cold, the regulator valve is open and the oil is thick, both these factors contribute to the effect when one or maybe more tappets is not compensating the lash. When warm, the regulator is closed (to keep warmed oil pressure at appropriate level) and the oil viscosity is also appropriate for normal tappets operations. I am very curious if the solution was finally found for topic starter case ) would appreciate any additional info on it )

[Baddeley]

Hi, I know this is an old thread, but did anyone get to the bottom of this? I have a late 2017 Boxer 2.0 BlueHdi 130 with a similar problem which I'm currently fixing. It has the top-end rattle that you mention (very similar), but it also has other problems: It blows out a lot of smoke and sometimes goes into limp mode. Also, the brakes have no vacuum assist. Diagnostics says 'injectors programming', which I've done (and was accepted), but has made no difference and the error just comes back. I'm currently removing and cleaning the injectors and have removed the brake vacuum pump, which turned out to have quite a bit of oil in it, so I'm thinking that these two problems may just be partly linked by a PCV/CCV problem, but cannot see how to get this off. The only option I can think of is to remove the valve cover, is this right? Obviously, not a big job, but I've read elsewhere that there's a valve that fits between the head and the block, which needs an engine strip, which I just don't have the time or facilities to do right now. Does anyone have any more info on this? Photos would be very helpful too! Thanks in advance.

[attachment=0]RockerCover.jpg[/attachment]

[PaulC5]

If the vacuum pump has a seal between it and the engine block then possibly it is leaking.

[Baddeley]

Thanks PaulC5, I was also thinking that, but I don't know of any way to test for that - other than to just replace it (which still doesn't prove anything). It obviously uses an oil feed from the engine and maybe the return isn't good, but again, nothing is obvious just looking at it. That's why I was wondering about the PCV/CCV valve leaking into it maybe, possibly also causing my smoking and rattling symptoms? Anyway, I'm going to take the cam cover off and have a look at that and check the cam chain/tensioner at the same time. By the way, I've only recently bought this, so don't know it's history.