Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

PaulC5
Donor 2024
Posts: 223
Joined: 06 Jun 2023, 15:26
x 52

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by PaulC5 »

Looks as if a new fuel filter housing is needed, hope they are still available.
I tried to find the topic but for some reason I can not open the second or more pages on the Citroen Owners Club so could not access the page with all the filter bi metal details. However, I have now found I can change the page number in the address to get the other pages.
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 13709
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 2987

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I got my reconditioned starter motor from GSF (who, I have found, are pretty reliable with the quality and accuracy of their parts). I don't know who it was originally made by, but it was reconditioned by Bosch.

If you go to the GSF website you can set up an account with them (which can result in large discounts every so often; I had to get a new battery for my current C5, and the Yuasa would have been about £300; I got it for around £100). Then, when you enter your car reg, it should point you in the right parts direction.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
User avatar
citroenguy
(Donor 2021)
Posts: 186
Joined: 21 Sep 2017, 18:05
x 55

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by citroenguy »

How are the glow plugs?
Quite essential on a cold moring.

Is it a crank -no start problem or does it not crank at all?
I have various repair handbooks and wiring diagrams for C5 mk1, Xantia, XM, Berlingo and C3 mk1.
I have Lexia/Diagbox (Sweden) and Servicebox/sedre
Online
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25200
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 4863

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by myglaren »

citroenguy wrote: 27 Oct 2023, 17:49 How are the glow plugs?
Quite essential on a cold moring.
In Sweden definitely but here they are very rarely brought into play. I can't remember seeing the glow plug indicator on either of my C5s, they always started on the button, just like a petrol engine.
________________________________
I ain’t hiding from nobody, ain't nobody hiding from me.
Anorak
Posts: 17
Joined: 08 Sep 2020, 14:34
x 5

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Anorak »

citroenguy wrote: 27 Oct 2023, 17:49 How are the glow plugs?
Quite essential on a cold moring.

Is it a crank -no start problem or does it not crank at all?
From what I have read, glow plugs are not used until temperatures get very low (i.e. not often in the UK):

"Here's the timings:

At a coolant temperature of:

-30°C pre-heating time 20s
-10°C pre-heating time 5s
0°C pre-heating time 0.5s
+18°C pre-heating time 0s


Here's the post heating data:

During the starting phase, the glow plugs are supplied under the following conditions :

• the coolant temperature is below 20 degrees C
• the engine runs at more than 70 rpm for 0.2 second(s)

POST HEATING

Post-heating consists of prolonging the operation of the glow plugs for a maximum of 60 seconds from the end of the starting phase .
Parameters which could interrupt post-heating :
• coolant temperature greater than 20 degrees C
• flow injected greater than 35 mm3
• engine speed above 2000 rpm"


The engine cranks freely but will not start when cold.
User avatar
Michel
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2202
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
x 656

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Michel »

Had this very issue myself on three cars with the 2.0HDi 8v motor. My 04 plate Berlingo, 03 plate Xsara Picasso and an 02 plate C5

Replacing the starter motor on all resolved the issue immediately. I'd not waste any time researching other causes.
User avatar
Michel
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2202
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
x 656

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Michel »

citroenguy wrote: 27 Oct 2023, 17:49 How are the glow plugs?
Quite essential on a cold moring.
Not on an HDi engine in the UK. It's nowhere near cold enough. Don't think I've ever seen any of mine activate.
Anorak
Posts: 17
Joined: 08 Sep 2020, 14:34
x 5

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Anorak »

Well, and I hope that I'm not speaking too soon, but after replacing the fuel filter housing the engine fired up immediately; I did'nt even need to prime the system in any way. And for the past two mornings it has started almost immediately as well! :-D Now the real test will come when we have some frosty mornings (if we ever do with climate change), and I will report back when that happens.

Just one question...in the article that highlighted the bimetallic spring problem (see previously quoted links), the guy said that his fuel filter had no electrical connections. Mine does, see below:

Image

What is this connection used for?

Just to summarise and my conclusion to date: the starting problem was due to a faulty fuel filter housing.
Anorak
Posts: 17
Joined: 08 Sep 2020, 14:34
x 5

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Anorak »

Spoke too soon; a slightly colder morning today and the car wouldn't start. :(
Looks like new starter time.
Anorak
Posts: 17
Joined: 08 Sep 2020, 14:34
x 5

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Anorak »

New starter motor fitted and everything is fine - wow aren't they small, like something off a ride-on lawn mower!
Anorak
Posts: 17
Joined: 08 Sep 2020, 14:34
x 5

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Anorak »

Back to square 1 - with the recent cold snap it will not start even with the new starter motor :(
Fires up immediately with a squirt of EasyStart.
From testing their resistance, the glow plugs seem fine.

Anyone got any more suggestions? Could it be related to the fuel pressure regulator?
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49286
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6099

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by CitroJim »

Have you had a leakdown/compression test? Symptoms like this in the olden days of Indirect Injection XUD engines could often be found to be due to low compression and often because of some valves being very, very slightly held off the seats when the engine was stone-cold. Often as a result of overtight valve clearances. A quirk of the XUD ( and the TU) engine was that valve clearances were tightest when the engine was cold and as the engine warmed and 'grew' a bit through expansion the valve clearances would open up.

As the early HDi is closely related, this may be the case. Just a tad of heat and away it goes. In this case, provided by the dose of Easy Start. I'm not saying it is for sure but it's all worth a check.

One give-away, if it is caused by initial low compression, will be lots of white smoke (unburned fuel) being visible whilst cranking... You may also find unburned diesel in the sump oil too...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Anorak
Posts: 17
Joined: 08 Sep 2020, 14:34
x 5

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by Anorak »

CitroJim wrote: 26 Nov 2023, 15:18 Have you had a leakdown/compression test? Symptoms like this in the olden days of Indirect Injection XUD engines could often be found to be due to low compression and often because of some valves being very, very slightly held off the seats when the engine was stone-cold. Often as a result of overtight valve clearances. A quirk of the XUD ( and the TU) engine was that valve clearances were tightest when the engine was cold and as the engine warmed and 'grew' a bit through expansion the valve clearances would open up.

As the early HDi is closely related, this may be the case. Just a tad of heat and away it goes. In this case, provided by the dose of Easy Start. I'm not saying it is for sure but it's all worth a check.

One give-away, if it is caused by initial low compression, will be lots of white smoke (unburned fuel) being visible whilst cranking... You may also find unburned diesel in the sump oil too...
Thanks for the suggestion, although I have to say that I'm a bit doubtful that this is the cause of the problem. Even before I fitted the new starter motor, I could get it to start with a blast of a hair drier over the fuel filter housing. Surely that woudn't be enough to warm up the valve seats? I've read that some fuel pressure regulators had a small integral filter. If this was partially blocked could it be the cause of my problem?

Unfotunately with some money needed to get it through the MOT I cannot justify spending any more on it. I'm therefore probably going to scrap it, which is a great shame seeing as it had a new cambelt and water pump fitted only 2,000 miles ago, together with a total brake overhaull using genuine Citroen calipers etc.. :(
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49286
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6099

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by CitroJim »

Offered as thoughts given nothing else seems to have hit the spot!

If it starts OK at other times, I'd not suspect any little filters... But then again, in cases like this, who knows?

Sorry to hear the car may have met its end with you. Seems a shame after all the work that's been done.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
PaulC5
Donor 2024
Posts: 223
Joined: 06 Jun 2023, 15:26
x 52

Re: Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

Post by PaulC5 »

Was the fuel filter housing you put on a new one or used - just thinking if the hair dryer trick on it still helps then if a used housing it may be that is also faulty.