Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

[Anorak]

The following issue relates to a 2003 Citroen C5 Mk1 manual 2.0 litre diesel with 8 valve engine…

The car will not start or is incredibly difficult to start when the outside temperature is below about 10 degrees centigrade. It starts fine when the weather is warmer, and once it has started when cold, it is fine for the rest of the day, and runs perfectly. It is when left overnight that I get the problem.

My first thought was that the Yuasa battery was on its way out, but I had the battery tested by the place that supplied it, and they said that the condition was good, providing a cold crank of 683A (compared to a brand new condition of 740A). I also rang Yuasa Technical Department, and they agreed. Indeed, the car will not start from cold even when jump starting from another car. With a fully charged battery the starter motor seems to crank at a good speed (to my ears anyway), but how do you gauge what is good cranking rate and what isn’t? Occasionally I can get the car to start if I crank it on and off over a period of say 10 minutes. However, I used Easy Start this morning, and it fired up almost immediately!

So what do I look at next?

• Can I rule out any issues with the camshaft sensor and crankshaft sensor, as the problem is so temperature dependent? Am I correct in assuming that these components either work or not, irrespective of outside temperature? As an aside, where are they located on the 8 valve engine?
• Could it still be an issue with the starter motor even though with Easy Start the engine fires up almost instantly?
• I have checked the resistance of the glow plugs and all seems okay, but I understand that these only become relevant when the outside temperature is very, very cold.
• I have read somewhere that if the cranking speed is not fast enough, the fuel system cuts out two of the injectors. Is this correct? Why would it be designed in this way?
• Could it be something to do with the fuel pressure regulator; can this component be tested?

All suggestions gratefully received.

[Paul-R]

How many miles has the vehicle done? Is there a (good) air filter in place?

[Anorak]

How many miles has the vehicle done? Is there a (good) air filter in place?

153,000 miles. Air filter good and in place.

[myglaren]

Both James (Hellrazor) and I have had this problem with our C5s of similar vintage and in both cases it was the starter motor flagging.

[Anorak]

Both James (Hellrazor) and I have had this problem with our C5s of similar vintage and in both cases it was the starter motor flagging.

Thanks. Is there anyway of testing a starter motor before I shell out quite a large some of money for a replacement?

[Anorak]

Both James (Hellrazor) and I have had this problem with our C5s of similar vintage and in both cases it was the starter motor flagging.

But with your starter motor issues, did the car start with Easy Start?

[Hell Razor5543]

Not really, as it will spin quickly when not under load. However, if you use GSF they will sell you a reconditioned starter motor for around £120, and if you then give them your old starter motor (in the packaging the recon unit came in) you should get back about half that. The only modification you will probably need to make is for the 'trigger' wire. On my first C5 the 'trigger' wire ended with a ring terminal (as the starter motor had a threaded rod), but the recon motor had a spade terminal, so I made up a short wire with a ring terminal at one end, and the female 'spade' connector on the other, so I did not end up possibly shortening the 'trigger' wire too far.

[Sloppysod]

Not the answer but a question, hopefully some can answer.
Wouldn't you expect the cranking voltage & current draw be abnormal if the starter is getting tired if so, both high?

[myglaren]

Both James (Hellrazor) and I have had this problem with our C5s of similar vintage and in both cases it was the starter motor flagging.

But with your starter motor issues, did the car start with Easy Start?

Mine had been difficult for a week and packed in altogether while I was at work.
The garage I use is only a couple of hundred yards from work so I called in and asked them to fix it.
It was tested and found to be partially seized so they replaced it.
£160 and no hassle for me, collected it the following morning and all was well.

[PaulC5]

This is a long shot, but I vaguely remember reading something on early C5s that had a fuel filter problem when cold due to a bimetal part in them. The topic said the car would not start when cold but if kept in a workshop overnight and hence warm it would start so took the garage a long time to find the cause. This could tie up with your car starting easily when warm or when using easy start.

[Anorak]

This is a long shot, but I vaguely remember reading something on early C5s that had a fuel filter problem when cold due to a bimetal part in them. The topic said the car would not start when cold but if kept in a workshop overnight and hence warm it would start so took the garage a long time to find the cause. This could tie up with your car starting easily when warm or when using easy start.

Thanks for this; I'll trawl the internet to see if I can find the article.

[Anorak]

Just looking at replacement starter motors...
Various motor factors are supplying them with anything between 9 and 13 teeth. Does anyone know what the OE specification was, and does it matter anyway?
Also, am I right in saying that the OE starter motor was 1.7kw?

Thanks

[myglaren]

Ignore anything you might see on EuroCrapParts, guaranteed to fail in six months.
GSF is probably your best bet and if you open an account with them they give some very hefty discounts.
I believe James sourced his there and may have more info for you.

[Anorak]

This is a long shot, but I vaguely remember reading something on early C5s that had a fuel filter problem when cold due to a bimetal part in them. The topic said the car would not start when cold but if kept in a workshop overnight and hence warm it would start so took the garage a long time to find the cause. This could tie up with your car starting easily when warm or when using easy start.

Found the article:

https://citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citro ... _vignette
https://citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citro ... e_vignette

Not sure that it's the cause of my problem but great additional information.

[Anorak]

This is a long shot, but I vaguely remember reading something on early C5s that had a fuel filter problem when cold due to a bimetal part in them. The topic said the car would not start when cold but if kept in a workshop overnight and hence warm it would start so took the garage a long time to find the cause. This could tie up with your car starting easily when warm or when using easy start.

Found the article:

https://citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citro ... _vignette
https://citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citro ... e_vignette

Not sure that it's the cause of my problem but great additional information.

Well the car wouldn't start again this morning, so I tried warming the fuel filter with a hair drier. Lo and behold, it then fired up immediately. This could be on to something