C5 X7 no start (or only runs for fraction of a second)

[MattBLancs]

Quite odd seeing how it's intermittent. Guess some really persistent gremlins snuck in this time. Keep us posted Matt, curious to see what it was eventually. Hoping for a quick fix!

Yes, very odd!

It's a shame it's such a big heavy lump, as don't mind the occasional (manually pushed) bump start! Have bump started a few diesels (previous 306 1.9 XUD9TE and C4 1.6 HDi, one was a radio that ran it down, the other a failing battery)

Don't worry, will keep this up to date with both failed and hopefully successful attempts/solution(s)

When I saw the starter motor size difference, thought I finally had this problem covered. If only!

Diagnostic session will be tomorrow, the evening has run away from me,

Matt

[CitroJim]

Gosh Matt, just read the updates after being away from here for a day or so...

Whilst my brain is still very befuddled, I'm continuing to cogitate over this... Gives my brain something useful to do!

[MattBLancs]

Gosh Matt, just read the updates after being away from here for a day or so...

Whilst my brain is still very befuddled, I'm continuing to cogitate over this... Gives my brain something useful to do!

Morning Jim,

Hope you continue to be more and more de-befuddled as the day goes on!

Yes, has me stumped again. Thought bingo! When the difference in starter sizes became apparent (after the initial "is that big thing going to fit!?!" ) Definitely turns over quicker

Will try and break off from work at about 4:00, so aim for a quick diagnostic session then. Need to tell the 206 it has a new DPF so will bit of Peugeot Planet time as well as Diagbox interrogation of the C5 again.

[bobins]

Should a malfunctioning immobiliser be added to the list of possible causes? It would seem unlikely that could be the cause as the chances of it working coinciding with a successful bump start seem slim, but it would be another contender for something that could inhibit a start and run.

[MattBLancs]

What's the expected operation for the immobiliser? Surprised if would let it "cough" (unless of course that's part of the immobiliser fault!)

Not dismissing the suggestion, just thinking aloud

[CitroJim]

What's the expected operation for the immobiliser? Surprised if would let it "cough"

Yes, all those I've known have been 100% binary, either fully off or on... But... Let's not forget it's a Citroen...

I've been trying to be a bit logical about this... Only happens when the starter motor is in operation. Therefore, now the starter itself has been eliminated what's left?

Perhaps the only thing that changes when the car is starter-motor started or bump started is the position of the ignition key...

Maybe, when the ignition switch is in the start position something in it is going high-resistance and denying full volts to critical electronics...

This possibility mighty be ruled out by rigging a temporary start button from battery direct to solenoid - via a fuse - to enable a start with the ignition switch in the normal run position and this replicating - as far as possible - what would be happening during a bump start...

[MattBLancs]

That's a good idea/hypothesis, will have a go at that soon - thank goodness the starter is so accessible!

Could even be a circuit that is supposed to be active in the running and starting positions is sometimes not live (sticky relay?) When flicking to start position.

Thanks,

Matt

[bobins]

Without trawling back through the thread - did it cough/run with a sniff of 'Start You B*stard' ? If it did, then it's either going to be lack of compression, or lack of (correct) fueling ??? If it didn't, then I'd say some or all of your valves aren't opening.

[MattBLancs]

Without trawling back through the thread - did it cough/run with a sniff of 'Start You B*stard' ? If it did, then it's either going to be lack of compression, or lack of (correct) fueling ??? If it didn't, then I'd say some or all of your valves aren't opening.

Getting a rather long saga isn't it!

Initial go - yes.
Subsequent go at later date - no.

Note that in the long period before the first bump start, that it did seem to deteriorate from a consistent "cough" on each attempt to just dry cranking.
Second attempt with giving it a fluid up the inlet was in the dry cranking phase.

When it refused to start in middle of Chorley car park it was back to the consistent cough again.

Bump start, then normal starting again, until yesterday.

Started fine, drive round the back, starter motor swapped, now won't go. Took my time on the starter job and break for dinner, so say couple of hours between running car and return of the consistent coughing non starting pain in the bum!


My gut feeling is fuel related as would expect it to throw a code or give me something obviously wrong in the live data. But immobiliser and other good suggestions posted here will all be explored too.

Will have another diagnostic session shortly and add in here what it says today.

[H4wkeye]

Gosh Matt, just read the updates after being away from here for a day or so...

Whilst my brain is still very befuddled, I'm continuing to cogitate over this... Gives my brain something useful to do!

Morning Jim,

Hope you continue to be more and more de-befuddled as the day goes on!

Yes, has me stumped again. Thought bingo! When the difference in starter sizes became apparent (after the initial "is that big thing going to fit!?!" ) Definitely turns over quicker

Will try and break off from work at about 4:00, so aim for a quick diagnostic session then. Need to tell the 206 it has a new DPF so will bit of Peugeot Planet time as well as Diagbox interrogation of the C5 again.

Speaking of 206 and DPF, I gotta get the DPF cleaned on my C5 as well. That's the next thing on the to do list.

[MattBLancs]

Speaking of 206 and DPF, I gotta get the DPF cleaned on my C5 as well. That's the next thing on the to do list.

Keep a very close eye on Autodoc DPF prices, I hope you land as lucky there as I did!!

viewtopic.php?t=73094

[MattBLancs]

Looks like fun (and hard to replicate at home, sadly. Yes I have tried pressure washer, hose and compressed air line. Soaking in a bucket. No great volume removed unfortunately)




The red colour is the accumulated additive which isn't burnt off, and is what ultimately blocks the filter.

[MattBLancs]

P.s. I have been shopping

Buy-it-now, should be here by the weekend

Wondering about buying both a crank and camshaft sensor just in case. Only about £15-£20 each from Autodoc

[MattBLancs]

So, fault codes currently stored (will clear them shortly and see what returns)

BSI
F5FF
UNEXPECTED REINITIALISATION FAULT COMING FROM THE BSI

F03D
Fault absence of communication with the hands-free kit ECU or the nomad control unit.

That's a new one! No hands free kit here to my knowledge!

F085
Fault no communication with the parking assistance ECU.

Know about that one.

Injection/ignition
P1351
Preheating relay circuit

P0490
Electric EGR valve position repeat signal
P1459
Same description
P0489
Same description
P0104
Flowmeter signal

Power steering electric pump unit
C1211
serious attempt to restart the vehicle speed assistance

Suspect this is the the restart whilst moving temporary loss of power steering described previously.

Electronically managed suspension
U2005
triggering (vehicle speed receipt anomaly)

Under inflation detection
C1602
front left wheel transmitter module information not received.

Self-inflicted new tyre on new alloy without tpms. Front left wheel now in boot. Suspect the system will be switched off shortly as I have rotated tyres front to back so expect major strop when next on the move!

U1213
Fault in the vehicle speed information received by the CAN from the ABS or ESP ECU

Headlamp height adjuster / directional headlamp communication error.


Multifunction display
F085
Fault: no communication with parking assistance ECU

Again know about this one.

Parking aid communication error

As above.

Radio or radio telephone (radio part)
F085
No communication with the parking assistance ECU

F905
Fault on auxiliary audio input number 1
F907
Bolt on auxiliary audio input number 2

9931
Inconsistency of the configuration (CD changer present coded absent)

Not sure what these radio codes are all about! Other than the parking assistance one.

Right, tea time then clear and see what comes back.

[MattBLancs]

P0490 insufficient opening of the valve
P1469 EGR valve confirmed stuck closed
P0489 excessive opening of the valve
P0104 sensor supply or signal open circuit short circuit to positive or to earth

Cleared the above.
No faults found.