Peugeot Electrical fault

[onejon1]

Hi All,

My rear wiper came to a halt the other week, I have removed it from the car and taken it apart, It is well and truly clogged up to a standstill I have got this freed up and running as it should be. I assumed that the motor had toasted itself, however on bench testing it, the motor is running well, I have run it with the mechanism removed, as it only spins in one direction, due, I assume to the way I am powering it.

I have left the mechanism detached, as I will have to get it powered by the car before I can reattach the mechanism in the right position. I assume that the motor runs forward and backward and guess this is controlled by the relay?

On connecting it back to the car and turning the wipers on (at the stalk) the wiper motor does not respond.

I have done the following tests...

I have put my multimeter on 2 of the 4-pin plug and it shows nothing when the stalk is in the off position, but it gives me 11+volts when I turn the wiper on., so it appears that the socket is getting power.

On the bench, I connected + to two of the pins, this goes to the motor via the relay and the minus to the body, and the motor spins, so maybe the relay is also okay? I have also connected the + directly to the positive of the motor and it also spins.

Any ideas as to why when connected to the car I am not getting it working?

My Cars: Peugeot 306 2001 HDI meridian
Engine Size 1997cc
Cylinders 4
Valves 8
Fuel Type Diesel
Transmission Manual
Gearbox 5 Speed
Drivetrain Front wheel drive
x 1

[RichardW]

What car? I think it's normal for the motor to only go one way and the mech to take care of the rest. These can have a piece of circuitry that needs very small currents to work properly, I had trouble with one on a Xantia but never really figured out how it worked - it would wipe every time the break lights came on!!

[onejon1]

[MattBLancs]

Relay just turns motor on and off. Motor runs one way, a forward and back sweep of the blade = 1 full turn of the drive gear (from memory motor may be a worm drive to this big gear)

I'd a failed motor on mine but turns out was just that blue relay - water ingress was a rusty blob inside! Bought a new motor complete with relay but in the end just swapped relay.

Note are two 306 hatchback rear motor types - earlier ones feed screenwash through centre of shaft to a nozzle on the arm. Later models dispensed with that, normal nozzle top of screen.

Think I bought earlier motor and relay - hence keeping original motor.

Note if viewing on mobile you don't see the detail as screen captured. Note also some folks have multiple cars listed there so always worth a check.

All the details captured in your post are good, but not clarified if hatchback or estate (though I am not sure if there was a Meridian estate??)

[MattBLancs]

P.s. Also, 11 volts feed is a bit low, as comparison what are you reading at the battery terminals in same condition? (guessing is ignition on but engine not running, hence battery voltage fairly low)

Given what you've tested already, I'd carefully prise off the blue relay and see what lurks within. My blue lid was pretty much falling off given the state of the internals!

May be relay contacts are in poor order and so are (getting hot rather than) delivery full power to the motor

[onejon1]

Thanks for your reply and apologies for the late reply however issues/priorities have now shifter to a more difficult issue.

You’re not far from me. Mine is "earlier ones feed screenwash through centre of shaft to a nozzle on the arm"

If you read my other post viewtopic.php?t=73038#top

Firstly I may be adding all these things together and this is skewing my view of what might be going on.

So in trying to fix my rear wiper, I created a short. The car wouldn’t start. RAC jump-started the car and said don’t turn the car off, go straight to buy a new battery, as this one is knackered. Got home with a new battery (without turning the car off) after stopping the car, it then proceeded to restart, it carried on doing so over the next week circa 40+ times. Wow, the battery must/might have survived the short.

Thursday 8/12/22 evening the car was still starting, however, overnight it went very cold and Friday morning there was snow, and the car did not start. I then changed my mind about the battery surviving and thought oh well maybe it didn’t, so I lobed on a new one and the car started. However, after driving for a while the battery light came on (first time that this has happened), and the windows, radio, and clock, which I think are on the same fuse, no longer worked. Put the multimeter on the battery while it was running it was only showing about 11.8 volt (possibly the alternator) took it to a garage they took off one of the battery terminals and the car carried on running. According to them, it is not the alternator, they don’t have a car spark so could not help me further.

I’ve not had a chance to check the fuses, although the battery terminal appears good.

When it’s daylight, I will check terminals and fuses etc. Any thoughts, as always are welcome.

[onejon1]

Oh I forgot to mention, since the new battery was fitted, on first key click the various dashboard lights do their thing as usual, however, the battery light no longer comes on during this first click or indeed during the starting sequence.

After driving for a few minutes then the the battery light comes on.

Also, quite recently I had the cambelt, water pump & one of the tension bearing replaced. So no noises or slipping belt/wear and tear...

It's difficult to make sense of the fact that as soon as a brand new, correctly charged (tested in the shop)battery got fitted, that the battery light stopped illuminate in the starting sequence.

[MattBLancs]

Lots of stuff to take in, so if I ask something you've already stated, sorry, bear with me!

11.8 volts with engine running is very, very low. A healthy alternator should have been you near 14 volts.

To rule it out, if possible, measure voltage with a different meter (just to confirm meter isn't telling lies!)

I'd get to bottom of that in first instance as quoted voltage is just too low for a running engine.

(You've stated I'm not far from you, but I see your location only as United Kingdom)

The other thread suggest you had a battery problem and have changed it, now resolved.

Disconnecting battery with engine running I believe is generally not a good idea. A battery smooths alternator output and the "unsmoothed" supply isn't something the ECU would enjoy.

I've seen your profile picture (of 306 estate) my info about washer through centre of wiper spindle is hatchback related - to be honest I am not sure what the estate wiper arm options were. As yours is 2001 it's pretty late in 306 terms regardless.

If you had a short I'd expect a fuse to blow, what's made you think you'd created a short?

Battery light: not on before engine started then does come on later when engine running= odd, will have a think about that!


Back to the rear wiper - dug into blue relay yet?

[onejon1]

I did the following and you can see this in the video.

* Check the battery voltage before starting
* Start the car, then check the battery voltage

* Rev the car, which will usually bring the battery light on, and check the voltage again.
* Note all these values, so I can report these amounts back here

I will also check the following...

* battery terminals
* check all earth's

[onejon1]

Liverpool BTW

[MattBLancs]

Video is absolutely spot-on thanks for pulling that together.

Very odd behaviour, essentially the the alternator is not charging the battery, unless it sees some revs. I believe alternators have a certain rotational speed at which they will self-excite and begin working. Below this speed they rely on a voltage applied and I think this also links to the alternator light.

Just a side note to say your alternator light is operating back to front! Off when alternator not charging and on when it is!

I would dig into the alternator wiring. Think small connection 8-mm nut is the the trigger feed. My understanding is this should register 12 volts when ignition on but engine not running? Or certainly should be 12 volts once started - perhaps someone else can confirm I'm correct with that?

[myglaren]

Could possibly be back-feeding if the diode pack in the regulator has failed.

[MattBLancs]

Could possibly be back-feeding if the diode pack in the regulator has failed.

Yes, that's a good thought. I hadn't thought of that kind of alternator failure (in fact was assuming alternator ok as voltages - once it kicked in - were healthy)

[myglaren]

Happened to a mate with a Toyota Carina.
Gave him a lift to the dealers for a new serpentine belt. Sixty quid! This was in the mid nineties.
He asked what it would be if it wasn't the belt and they pulled the item and price up on the screen and told him they were going to leave the counter and he was to turn the screen round and see when they were out of sight.
Six hundred quid!

It was of course the alternator.
And the new belt solved nothing.

Removed the alternator, took it to a back street auto electrician down near the docks, as shabby a place and area as you are ever likely to see.
Went back for it the next morning. Eight quid to repair the diode pack. Good as new

[onejon1]

Does the fact that the clock & electric windows have also stopped working, add anything to this conundrum?

All fuses are present & correct