Xud7 te to xud9 te

[Xm25td]

Hi all,
I have tzd bx with xud7te engine, cambelt skipped camshaft and cam caps broke off so i need new head, i have a cheap engine oportunity but its a xud9 te, i has a different intake on it and injection pump has some wires on it i think its for timing advance and there is vacuum pump on camshaft end instead of hydraulic pump pulley. Engine doesnt come with injection pump!
What i was thinking is heads look the same so i can swap my intake manifold, i can remove vacuum pump and install hydraulic pulley? And last most importat is can i swap my bosch injection pump and injectors from xud7te to xud9te??

[CitroJim]

A warm welcome to the forum

Sorry to hear the cambelt went and damaged the head... You will be aware that bearing caps are not interchangeable between heads as they're line-bored as a set at the time of manufacture... never even try swapping them... It'll end in tears... Trust me, I've seen what can happen...

The XUD9 will transplant and with the heads being very similar the inlet manifold will transfer, as will a lot of the other ancillaries...

The XUD9 injection pump you have is the semi-electronic AS3 and must have a matching ECU and immobiliser to make it work... Not insurmountable problems but it'll take a bit of effort...

The pump from your XUD7 will physically fit but will be incorrectly calibrated to run an XUD9 and will cause underfuelling and result in poor performance... It's timing curve will likely be different too...

It may be possible to adjust it for reasonable performance by playing with its maximum fuelling and boost settings but I doubt it'll ever be 100% satisfactory...

You are best off trying to find a good fully mechanical VP20 pump intended for use on an XUD9TE. Sadly, these are now rare...

If you do find one, in all likelihood it'll need rebuilding...

The XUD7 and XUD9 heads are similar enough that they'll swap over and in that way you could retain your XUD7. Be aware though that conrods and pistons could be damaged as a result of the cambelt breakage, depending on how violent it was...

[MattBLancs]

It's worth noting the inlet manifold on the XUD9TE is the one designed for a front mount intercooler, would be tempted to keep that as potential for a touch more power with nice cool air (the top mount version isn't great, and gets significantlt worse the slower you are moving, heat rising from the block giving an "interwarmer" instead.

I'd be surprised if the XUD7 injection pump wouldn't adjust enough to suit an XUD9TE - it's only (1.8? Vs 1905cc) small increase in capacity.

I'm sure I read of a XUD9TE pump being used to replace the electronic version on a 2.1 XUD11 (EPIC pump?) as part of a transplant

Matt

[MattBLancs]

I'm sure I read of a XUD9TE pump being used to replace the electronic version on a 2.1 XUD11 (EPIC pump?) as part of a transplant

Matt

viewtopic.php?t=27900

[CitroJim]

I'd be surprised if the XUD7 injection pump wouldn't adjust enough to suit an XUD9TE - it's only (1.8? Vs 1905cc) small increase in capacity.

Doubtless it'll work fairly well Matt and the 2.1TD thread contains some useful information... Good work finding that!

I'm a naturally careful person in these matters and was keen not to offer any false promises or guarantees... Hence my caution...

Thinking on, I'm wondering if the original XUD7 injectors should be used if the pump is swapped to the XUD9 or if the XUD9 injectors should be used... I can't currently think of any argument for or against so would appreciate your views...

Another thing that will be needed will be to swing the static timing around a little to see where it runs best... I've done this 'by ear' in the past with very adequate results...

Good call on the cambelt in your linked thread... Definitely don't want the same to happen again!

[RichardW]

1.7 and 1.9 were both tuned to 90 BHP near enough, so the IP ought to be OK. You will need a camshaft to suit the BX, and I don't know if the head / rocker cover will take the camshaft seal at that end?

[MattBLancs]

I'm a naturally careful person in these matters and was keen not to offer any false promises or guarantees... Hence my caution...

Thinking on, I'm wondering if the original XUD7 injectors should be used if the pump is swapped to the XUD9 or if the XUD9 injectors should be used... I can't currently think of any argument for or against so would appreciate your views...

Another thing that will be needed will be to swing the static timing around a little to see where it runs best... I've done this 'by ear' in the past with very adequate results...

I'm sure I have read Lucas and Bosch injectors are different opening pressures so don't mix but otherwise should be able to transfer across between XUD7 and XUD9 I think.

I tend to find I am a bit gung-ho, so I don't think your caution is misplaced!

[MattBLancs]

...
Good call on the cambelt in your linked thread... Definitely don't want the same to happen again!

Cambelt - definitely, water pump too.

In fact with engine out the car I'd probably take off head for new gasket, clean out inlet ports (EGR assumed on the later engine, not sure if the XUD7 was lumbered with that?)

Oh and with injection pump being moved, get those glow plugs swapped whilst there is access too

Matt

[CitroJim]

Yes, good thinking on all points Matt

Indeed, Lucas and Bosch injectors won't swap, and nor will their delivery pipes due to the two makes of pump having different distributor head arrangements. The cylinder delivery port are in different places and if you mix pipes the firing order will be all wrong!... In this case, both pumps are Bosch. I'm not sure if Bosch 1.7 and 1.9 injectors are calibrated for different opening pressures, hence the question...

[MattBLancs]

I'm not sure if Bosch 1.7 and 1.9 injectors are calibrated for different opening pressures, hence the question...

Haynes 1922 (Citroen ZX diesel) says:

Actually, scrub that - XUD7 covered here is non turbo only. 306 manual also non turbo XUD7 only. Have a 309 manual but is petrol only so am out of references to check against

[Xm25td]

I will need another camshaft to suit a pulley for a pump?
I thought i can remove vacuum pump from xud9 te and fit pulley?

[xantia_v6]

The Xantia XUD9 turbo also uses 175 bar injectors.

[MattBLancs]

I will need another camshaft to suit a pulley for a pump?
I thought i can remove vacuum pump from xud9 te and fit pulley?

That's the bit I'm not sure about to be honest, only played with an XUD without hydraulic suspension

[CitroJim]

I will need another camshaft to suit a pulley for a pump?
I thought i can remove vacuum pump from xud9 te and fit pulley?

I believe the pulley only drives a vacuum pump on the BX. You should be able to adapt to enable the XUD9 vacuum pump to be used. I believe you can't directly remove the vacuum pump and fit a pulley as the cams are likely different on that end... You might be lucky and it won't hurt to see...

Then again, ask yourself if what the vacuum pump runs is actually needed any more... I know on many Xantias the vacuum pump drives nothing more than the EGR valve and the cold fast idle actuator on the pump. Both those systems often ceased doing useful work long in the past so the vacuum pump was really quite surplus... Early Xantias with waxstat fast idle actuators didn't even have a vacuum pump! I'm not sure on the BX if it might do something more exotic like operate a vacuum sunroof or the like...

If needed, the XUD7 crank pulley will transfer quite happily if the XUD9 crank pulley is wrong for driving the auxiliaries...

XUD7TE and XUD9TE cams will be different. Even if your XUD7 cam is still in one piece I'd not risk using it as I've known a cam involved in a cambelt break initially appear OK and then snap in half a few months later!

[MattBLancs]

Then again, ask yourself if what the vacuum pump runs is actually needed any more... I know on many Xantias the vacuum pump drives nothing more than the EGR valve and the cold fast idle actuator on the pump. Both those systems often ceased doing useful work long in the past so the vacuum pump was really quite surplus... Early Xantias with waxstat fast idle actuators didn't even have a vacuum pump! I'm not sure on the BX if it might do something more exotic like operate a vacuum sunroof or the like...

I was going to say "the vacuum pump is for the brake servo in a normal car" then remembered about the funky brakes (runs off the central hydraulics? = No servo booster required?) and then you mentioned vacuum operated sunroofs and I realised that I am likely well out my depth!

What's the hydraulic pump for the suspension driven from, thought that would be off this cam pulley?