C5 x7 -> risk of clogging particle filter

[somethingSome]

Hi all, I'm new here and I could use some advice with my C5 1.6HDI.

I got the message above with the accompanying service light, I hooked the C5 to my crappy elm327 and all I got was a glow plug fault (which I think is pretty common).

So, off to Citroen it went, they called me back with a 640€ budget to clean the DFP and the catalytic converter, I asked about what kind of error codes that car was giving, they told me they are all related with the DFP and they also had to disassemble some parts to run a pressure test and that cleaning it should solve the issue.

I told them I would go get the car tomorrow since I'm not about to spend 640€ to clean anything, in all honesty I find that value outrageous for the service involved.

Now it's the part I could used some advice on,

The DFP has a service life of around 120k km right? My C5 has almost 180k km, so, wouldn't it make more sense to just replace it? Or is cleaning it that effective?

Does the catalytic converter really need to be cleaned? I never heard that being done, replaced yes, cleaned not so much.

How hard of a job is it to change the DFP? I think that the DFP is at the front of the engine, bellow the turbo, and does not seem like a big job to take it out and replace, but I might be wrong on this. Any opinions?

I also don't have lexia, which does not help.

[GiveMeABreak]

I'm assuming you have the 1.6 HDi 110.

On this engine the DPF is a lot easier to access as once you remove the pressure pipes and heat shield it should be easy to remove. I've not really heard of cleaning the Cat to be honest. If it was me, I'd just replace it, but you will need to tell the engine ECU that you have replaced the filter, otherwise it will keep flagging warnings. It notes the amount of incombustible Cerine deposits from the additive fluid and ash that has accumulated in the filter.

Prices, like most components vary greatly depending on the quality of the replacement and the brand, but don't forget to factor in the diagnostic element....

[somethingSome]

I'm assuming you have the 1.6 HDi 110.

I'm sorry, my bad, I should have posted which one it was. It's actually the 109. I'll post the Vin here for easier reference
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Does that diagram still apply for the 109?

I've not really heard of cleaning the Cat to be honest.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Tomorrow I'll ask them for a detailed budget. Let's see what they write there.

Prices, like most components vary greatly depending on the quality of the replacement and the brand, but don't forget to factor in the diagnostic element....

I'm brainstorming that right know against myself, from what I can see the DFP should be around 400€, just checking by model + engine code. (Do you happen to be able to get part numbers? This way I can be sure it's the right one.)

Adding to that the cost of lexia, it should come around 550€. (Any recommendations on where to source it from within the EU? I really don't want to deal with Portuguese customs if I order it from the UK)

Citroen sells the DFP for 551€(eurorepar parts) including labor.

It's evenly matched, on one hand I could tell Citroen to ignore whatever they want to do with the cat, and just replace the DFP. On the other, I could just do the work myself, get lexia and be sure what's wrong. Well, kinda, not really sure what the pressure test that Citroen did consists off. Does anyone know?

Or, 3rd option, tell Citroen to change the DFP and still buy lexia.

[somethingSome]

Quick update:

Go the car from Citroen and got the feeling they would want to go with the shotgun approach, clean the cat (they insist this must be done no matter what, even if I just replaced the DFP), clean the DFP and top off the eolys. I asked at the counter if the level was low, they couldn't tell me and said I needed to talk to the mechanic that did the diagnostic, since he was busy, I just opted to leave.

Going to an independent mechanic to see if the car reports any fault and get the soot and eolys levels.

Ordered a lexia3 from france. Hopefully it should arrive next week.

I have a question regarding the DFP part,
From what I can see in several online parts stores it seems that I can get the DFP or a DFP plus an integrated catalytic converter (no joint, seems everything is welded). Is this a thing for every 1.6? Or only specific models?

Here's the links if anyone want to take a look
DFP https://www.auto-doc.pt/hjs/10509705
DFP and catalytic converter (i think) https://www.auto-doc.pt/hjs/10509709

[mickthemaverick]

I had the same issues a couple of years ago and solved it completely as you can read on this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=672106#p672106 ...

which also has a couple of videos covering the subject

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok so:
1) There's no 109. It's a 1.6 110 with particle Filter (DV6TED4) engine as I suspected.
2) I can't help you with third party / aftermarket parts, but you must have the correct part for the vehicle - as returning it to places like Autodoc will incur return costs if you don't get it right.

We can help with official parts numbers, but please see below:

If you can't already find the info you need on the Forum, we do ask for a membership upgrade for official parts data as we are in turn charged for this. It will cover you for future parts requests for up to 2 years, so excellent value.

If interested, links are below, I already have your VIN.

A response to your question by a Forum Admin requiring parts or additional information requires you to have made a current contribution (£10 min.) to the Forum.

To Upgrade Your Membership & Donate Click Here For Further Information About Vehicle Parts and VIN Numbers Click Here

[somethingSome]

That's fair, and thanks for your help.
For now I'm going to wait for the lexia3 and take it from there.
Not really sure if going to change the DFP or not,
my local garage checked the car, no faults apart from glow plugs and soot levels at 18%, they couldn't read the eolys level tough.
They advised me to top it off given the car's milage.

So I have two different opinions on how to go about this, but Im just going to wait for the lexia3 before anything. In the meantime,
Is there any specific warning for the eolys level?
Can this warning be triggered by low levels?

[somethingSome]

I had the same issues a couple of years ago and solved it completely as you can read on this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=672106#p672106 ...

which also has a couple of videos covering the subject

You really went nuclear on the DFP by soaking it in acid. Did it ever return? How many miles have you covered since?

I might just do that, if that doesn't work I'll have to replace it either way, so no loss either way.

[Rp0thejester]

Diesel system additive cleans all!! It's stopped my dpf warnings and will help. If it's not failed an MOT on emissions, don't worry!! If eolys is same as my car it's based on mileage and just an estimate. I refilled my dpf and it's still showing its low, need to reset with Lexia.

[mickthemaverick]

You really went nuclear on the DFP by soaking it in acid. Did it ever return? How many miles have you covered since?

I might just do that, if that doesn't work I'll have to replace it either way, so no loss either way.

The car has done over 25000 since then with no sign of the error message and drives very well!!

Incidentally it is DPF not DFP. It stands for Diesel Particulate Filter!

[GiveMeABreak]

Is there any specific warning for the eolys level?
Can this warning be triggered by low levels?

There will be a warning issued when the engine ECU estimates that the fluid remaining will be insufficient to last until the next scheduled service interval.
It knows this from the service maintenance counter.

Of course there are caveats to this and here I am being hypothetical:

1) It assumes that the additive is at the correct estimated level and that the additive counter has not been reset by somebody to remove the warning or before selling the car on as an example....
2) Additive levels are part of main dealer servicing (at the appropriate service based on the mileage).

[somethingSome]

You really went nuclear on the DFP by soaking it in acid. Did it ever return? How many miles have you covered since?

I might just do that, if that doesn't work I'll have to replace it either way, so no loss either way.

Incidentally it is DPF not DFP. It stands for Diesel Particulate Filter!

You see, the car is french

25k is great all things considered. A block of hydrochloric acid and that it? I wish I can be that lucky!

[mickthemaverick]

You need to make sure the HCl is not too strong. In the UK we can buy it from builder's merchants described as 'brick acid' intended to be used by bricklayers to remove excess mortar from brickwork after pointing has been done. A decent soaking followed by the forward and backward flushing will do the job. You will be amazed at the amount of pinkish black dirt that comes out!! Also once you are happy it is properly flushed dry it with a warm air blower before refitting.
Be careful you don't make my mistake and damage the radiator with the back end of the ratchet, a piece of hardboard over the rad face for protection is what I did on the second car I cleaned, which also has covered over 20k since without further problem! Good luck

[somethingSome]

Of course there are caveats to this and here I am being hypothetical:

1) It assumes that the additive is at the correct estimated level and that the additive counter has not been reset by somebody to remove the warning or before selling the car on as an example....
2) Additive levels are part of main dealer servicing (at the appropriate service based on the mileage).

1) I bought the car 50k km ago and I don't think it's been tampered with, at least up until now never had any sort of issue that would indicate that.

2) interesting, the last 3 scheduled maintenance, which I do every 15k were done at the main dealer, they never mentioned topping off the eolys.

There will be a warning issued when the engine ECU estimates that the fluid remaining will be insufficient to last until the next scheduled service interval.
It knows this from the service maintenance counter.

Been reading up on that from your posts has well as others. From what I understood, the ECU does a best guess by applying a simple linear function, everytime the fuel lid is opened, it substracts a constant measure x to the current amount, it then updates the current amount to match the result.
If I got it right, then no way this will be accurate after a few hundred iterations, nozzle leakage, changes in altitude affecting density, all that would influence the real value.
I might just call tomorrow to top it off.

[GiveMeABreak]

I meant at 1) that the additive counter may have been reset without adding any additive - I should of made that clearer (it's been a long day).

2) On your vehicle the DPF should be replaced at 100k miles officially. The additive should be refilled at 75k miles. Some vehicles then specify a check every so many thousand miles if not topped up and reset, but yours just states to refill it at 75k.

3) The systems can work differently depending on vehicle, emission system and engine ECU, but essentially, the engine ECU determines if fuel has been added and makes the necessary calculations to determine how much and therefore how much additive is metered out. The fuel sender cannot detect a variation in fuel level of less than 7 litres precisely.