(C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

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ciupa
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Joined: 06 Dec 2021, 22:26

(C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by ciupa »

Hi to everbody,
It's my first post here. What's more I'm not car experts so please be patient if I ask silly questions or so :wink:

A few months ago I left my C4 in service to replace a turbo charger. Same time it appead a ABS/ESP unit had broken. They order a second-hand which didn't operate so order another with same result. Thinking that was no ABS/ESP unit they started to troubleshoot failure making it much worse. Finally car went to another service who brought it to operate (by replacing another ABS/ESP plus some other activities to fix damages made by predecessors). Finally I got my car back but with some errors (which both workshops can't fix). Problem is with EPB: just after engine is off automatic break is activated (that's ok). But then a few seconds after BSI goes to sleep mode a relay click (don't know which, just hear "somethink click" most likely in PSF box) and they a electronic break is slightly released. Service indication/auto parking/parking indicators goes ON. There are two diagnostic codes: U1313 and U2219 (I can't translete these clearly to english).
Good point in all that issue is this malfunction can be "easly fixed" but put a ignition switch to ON->OFF->ON position. What's more where engine is ON electronic brake pull back what was relesed before.
As I was informed a EPB was recalibrated after ABS/ESP unit repleacement.
Can anybody give me advise what can be a reason of such behavior? Could it be a incompatibility of replaced ABS/ECU unit? A wireing? Wrong parameters on ABS/ECU?
Could somebody share a diagnostic code descriptions with possible root casue and troubleshooting tips?
As I worte at top of that post: I'm not car expert but would know where to start digging since a help form sevice workshops is little and don't want to leave another guys my car for months...
Darek
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Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Hi, Darek, and :welc: to the Forum. While I cannot offer you any advice with your problems, DON'T worry if you are asking what (to you, at least) are 'silly' questions. They are not 'silly' if you don't know the answers, and the main reason this forum exists is to help owners of French cars resolve problems.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi Darek. The ABS ESP Units must be correct for the vehicle and if using a second hand unit, the ECU will need checking and possibly programming to match the vehicle options on your Picasso.

These are the fault code explanations:
C4 Pic Service.PNG
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message :
"a": Electric parking brake fault warning lamp
"b": Electric parking brake warning lamp
"c": Service warning lamp

Fault Code: U1313
Description of Fault: Fault in the reception of the partial triggering message by the built-in systems interface (BSI). The dynamic stability control ECU causes functional faults. This fault will appear when the ignition is switched on, after the self-checks are completed.
Conditions for Fault to clear: Reception of 3 consecutive items of valid information.
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:
  • Deactivation of automatic mode.
  • Ignition on: The electrically controlled parking brake releases if the button is not held.
  • Ignition off: The electrically controlled parking brake releases if you hold the button for less than 3 seconds.
The specific warning lamps shown in the diagram above are lit like this when this fault is active:
  • "a": lit
  • "b": Not on
  • "c": lit
Symptoms:
  • Illumination of LED/Error message
  • Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
  • Electrically-controlled parking brake releases unexpectedly
  • Electrically-controlled parking brake does not release correctly
  • Electrically-controlled parking brake applies itself unexpectedly
  • The hill start assist is not working
  • Loss of stability of the vehicle in dynamic braking
Suspect Areas:
  • Electronic stability control (ESP)
  • Electric parking brake

Fault Code: U2219
Description of Fault: Fault in the transmission of the message concerning the partial wake-up by the electronic parking brake: Coherence. Transmission of invalid information.
Conditions for Fault to clear: -
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:
  • No back-up mode
  • Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message:
    • "a": Not on
    • "b": Not on
    • "c": Not on
Symptoms:
  • Illumination of LED/Error message
  • Absence indicator light and/or warning message
  • Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
  • Electrically-controlled parking brake releases unexpectedly
  • Electrically-controlled parking brake does not release correctly
  • Electrically-controlled parking brake applies itself unexpectedly
  • The hill start assist is not working
Suspect Areas:
  • CAN network
  • Electronic stability control (ESP)
  • Electric parking brake

So either they have the incorrect ESP unit fitted for your vehicle, or they have not programmed it correctly, or they have damaged the CAN wiring.

At present the ESP ECU is sending out 'rubbish' (coherence fault), so the data is not being interpreted correctly and therefore switches off all the ESP functions.

For now, until you can get it to a proper mechanic who knows what they are doing, you will have to hold the electronic handbrake button on for at least 3 seconds after you have switched the ignition off to engage the handbrake.
ciupa
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Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by ciupa »

Marc,
There is no problem with engaging handbrake (electronic park brake if that's what you ment writing "handbrake") after engine goes to off. Strange (at least for me) is after going to sleep mode brake is slighty not fully released (car is still hold and can't be pushed even on small slope). What's more ABS/ESP features are working correctly when car is running. Problem occurs after ECUs goes to sleep mode.
I believe CAN is ok since problem occurs only when car is in sleep mode (at least it seems so). More probably ESP doesn't fit to my car or some parameters are wrong... Is there any way to check, having ESP unit part number and car's VIN, if unit fits to car? Is there any instruction how to check/configure ESP module and what data should be there based on VIN?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I meant that if you look at the fault codes under 'symptoms', it clearly says the handbrake does not apply correctly - which is what is happening in your case - regardless of engine switched off / ECU / Network sleep conditions. This is what happens when either of these faults are in play - the handbrake should never release on its own after being applied with the engine switched off.

I may be able to help you with the ESP parameter requirements but will need your VIN. As for parts info, we can help with official parts:

If you can't already find the info you need on the Forum, we do ask for a membership upgrade for official parts data as we are in turn charged for this. It will cover you for future parts requests for up to 2 years, so excellent value.

If interested, links are below, then pop your VIN up.
A response to your question by a Forum Admin requiring parts or additional information requires you to have made a current contribution (£10 min.) to the Forum.
To Upgrade Your Membership & Donate Click Here

For Further Information About Vehicle Parts and VIN Numbers Click Here
ciupa
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Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by ciupa »

Let's start with parameters . My VIN number is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]. Then I have to go to any workshop, to take out a wheel and see what ESP unit is there. Having that I will upgrade my membership. Unless I have to do it before receive ESP parameters.
ciupa
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Joined: 06 Dec 2021, 22:26

Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by ciupa »

Marc,
I'm not sure if I get you right so want to clarify:
- Do I need make donation before you can check right parameters to ESP?
- Do I have to take out a wheel to see ESP module part/serial number (form sticker) or I can read it by diagnostic tool (LEXIA, Diagbox or other)?
Anyhow I don't have LEXIA nor Diagbox on my own, but know a guy who may has it. So it's better do do all at once (parameters + module version if can be read by tool). Can other software by used: the workshop I usually coperate with uses Bosch diagnostic tool. Could it be suitable to read/configure ESP parameters?
Could you advice me how to proceed with that?
Thank you in advance.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak »

We only require a membership upgrade for PSA parts and to access some of the materials I put together in the Resources section.

I've been rather busy at home, so can only help with more detailed information when I have the time.

I can't speak for other diagnostics like Bosch - we only use Lexia / Diagbox as this is the software the dealers use.

The ABS ESP Module is behind the front left hand wheel, so you will need to remove this and the splash guard to access it. Also, each time the hydraulic block is removed, the system MUST be fully bled using the diagnostic tools. There are 2 operations, bleeding the PRIMARY braking system and also critically the SECONDARY braking system which is the ABS / ESP hydraulic block, which is done with the diagnostic tools using the guided procedures in Lexia / Diagbox.

One other thing. Each time the ESP ECU is replaced, the steering wheel angle sensor must be calibrated! So if this has not been done, you'll also get deactivation of ESP systems.

As for the Configuration, the following parameters are the possibilities that need to be checked against your specific vehicle, as a second hand used ESP / ABS ECU will have the parameters stored from the donor vehicle which may not be the same.
Configuration headingsStatus of the configuration parameters
engineDV6TED4 (9HZ)
DW10BTED4 (RHJ / RHR)
EW10A (RFJ)
EW7A (6FY)
Bodywork5-seat monospace Picasso II replacement
5-seat monospace family Picasso II replacement
7-seat monospace estate Picasso II replacement
Type of tyre215/55 R16
215/50 R17
215/45 R18
205/65 R15
Type of gearbox4-speed automatic gearbox
6-speed automatic gearbox
4-speed manual gearbox
Piloted manual gearbox
Electronic architectureWith left-hand drive and without pneumatic suspension
With left-hand drive and with pneumatic suspension
With right-hand drive and without pneumatic suspension
With right-hand drive and with pneumatic suspension
ciupa
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Joined: 06 Dec 2021, 22:26

Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by ciupa »

Marc, thanks a lot for help.
I scheduled a visit to workshop where they use Bosch equipment. It's the fastest way to start any troubleshooting. We will see if they have option to connect ESP/EPB modules. If it fails I will try to arrange visit do guy who has LEXIA. Let you know the progress.
ciupa
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Joined: 06 Dec 2021, 22:26

Re: (C4 GP) Electronic Park Brake problem

Post by ciupa »

So I had a visit in workshop where Bosch software is in use. What was done is:
- steering wheel angle sensor calibration
- scanning for a new errors
- attempting of reading ABS/ESP paramaters (failed due to software can't do it - at least we couldn't find a proper tab)
After sensor calibration errors were read again. Same errors were found (reside in EPB module) and U219 in ABS module. Does U219 bing something new to root cause?
Guy who I worked with said it could be a BMS module since it often cause such failures in various equipment. Could it be truth?
I tried to contact guy with Lexia but he still hasn't called back.
We also didn't check ESP part number since all car jacks were occupied :-(.