2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

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quintet
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2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

Bit hard to describe this but at 1800rpm in 3rd gear my 307 will often "splutter" and basically feel like it's misfiring, in 4th it's better but i guess it's because of the higher gearing and less strain on the engine. The car is driven slowly and i short shift gears keeping the rpm low rather than accelerate quickly upto speed (ie 40mph+ like most other road users) and i will then drive at 30 mph in 4th. The spluttering differs sometimes but it's usually always there at 1800rpm/30mph, sometimes quite bad making the car unpleasant to drive. The engine light has come on once & my PP200 diagnosed the MAF but unfortunately i couldn't really get into it to diagnose further as the diag kit i bought kept coming up with something like a "connection 1?" and other than erase the fault it wouldn't go any further.

The only thing i've replaced so far is the electovalve as it seemed to be letting air pass through it but a genuine replacement off ebay does the same, i am tempted to put a new MAF on it but at £180.00 plus vat its too much of an expensive guess even though it has shown an issue in the recent past. I am also tempted to book it in and get a software download done on it but that wont fix a mechanical fault.

I should point out this car is the base spec 2.0 hdi, so no intercooler, dpf, or dual mass flywheel and is 90hp so less to go wrong...in theory...I have read a number of threads on line which typically state blanking off the EGR, run without MAF and other possible fixes but non seem to actually fix the problem so before i crawl under it if anyone has any ideas i'd appreciate hearing them. The first thing i'll be looking at is the turbo pipes as there is a slight turbo whistle coming from the car but as theres no intercooler i can't see there really being an issue.
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by GiveMeABreak »

We can't advise any emissions defeating here, which includes EGR blanking which will almost guarantee additional errors in any case.

MAFs can be cleaned with specific MAF cleaner - but the wires are uber sensitive, so don't attempt to brush or rub it with anything - just use the dedicated cleaner. That may be cheaper than a MAF which may be unnecessary. I've done this myself in the past and ended up with a brand new OEM MAF for no reason.

Loss of turbo pressure can often manifest itself by a rasping noise or just a lack of welly. Most of the turbo power is delivered at lower engine revs, so you don't need to be wellying it to notice it.
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quintet
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

Rest assured i won't be blocking off the EGR unit, going down that road is a fools game in my opinion, i wasn't aware you could buy dedicated MAF cleaner though, thats gotta be worth a try for around a tenner, i might also buy a second hand MAF just to see if there's any difference once fitted, i suspect there wont be but if there isn't then that rules out the MAF (unless the used one is also faulty) and i won't have wasted a lot of money on a new one. I had a poke around under the car today but as i'm sure many are aware trying to look at stuff lying on your back under a car is not always successful, however i did not see much in the way of loose turbo pipes, when the car behaves itself it goes quite well.....it just doesn't do that very often.

Todays plan apart from poking around underneath was to check my brakes over, i knew they weren't great but they are ok for now, what i forgot was the nsf wheel bearing has play in it (perfectly quiet on the road) but i discovered the nsr shock absorber is leaking, an exhaust mounting is snapped & the osr abs sensor had significant corrosion behind it pushing the sensor onto the abs ring & rubbing against it! Unfortunately the plastic asb mounting is now warped & it wont sit flush against the hub (despite the corrosion being removed) so thats more work and money #-o
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

A brief update on this, i managed to purchase a 2nd hand MAF & the guy i bought it off actually sent me 3 which was very nice of him. The first one i fitted made no difference, the second one felt better and the third one put the MIL on, it could all be coincidence but I'll try running round using the second MAF. I tried using Wynns EGR cleaner after refitting the second MAF but I'm not sure it made any difference. I may take it to a dealer and see if it will take a software update but that will have to wait. I may still get a better diagnostic laptop in future too especially as new batteries are not available.
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Anyone know how to clear these when you get to 50?
Anyone know how to clear these when you get to 50?
Trying to get further into the fault but all i get is this, anyone any ideas what it means?
Trying to get further into the fault but all i get is this, anyone any ideas what it means?
The MIL fault after fitting the 3rd MAF (fault now erased)
The MIL fault after fitting the 3rd MAF (fault now erased)
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

List of current faults, there are 3 at the moment and i'm hoping i've noted down the fault and the code's in the correct sequence.

1,
Engine ECU, Permanent fault. Air flowmeter signal. Air flow too low coherence
- engine fault code P0100,
engine speed 1542,
air flow setting576mg/impulse,
air temperature 24deg C,
intake air flow 282mg/impulse,
turbo pressure 988mbars

2,
Engine ECU, intermittent fault, Fuel low pressure pump supply. Open circuit or short circuit to earth
ECU fault code P0230
engine speed 0
coolant temperature 18 deg C
battery voltage 6.9 volt (s)
Opening cyclic ratio electric cut out 0%
cruise control - cruise control off
Power latch - power latch not active
air conditioning compressor cut off - air conditioning cut-off inactive
EGR valve - EGR not active

3,
Engine ECU, intermittent fault, EGR air circuit fault. Airflow measure less than recommended
ECU fault code P0401
Engine speed - 1446 rpm
air flow setting 465mg/impulse
EGR solenoid valve OCR - 0%
intake air flow 329mg/impulse
actual delivery 24 mm3/stroke
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by Michel »

Pretty sure my 90bhp Berlingo HDi "hesitated" at the same engine speed - I'd describe it as feeling like being in too high a gear momentarily. I put it down to a characteristic of the fueling setup as it disappeared when I had the ECU remapped to 120bhp.
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

Getting a software update is still an option for me but i'm not sure i'll go down the road of a re-map, at least not until i have found out what the problem is but the driveability issue sounds about the same. Can anyone confirm just how many electrovalves a 90hp 307 hdi has? i have changed the one on (roughly) the front of the engine which i believe to be the Turbo boost pressure control valve (1628zt i hope it was the right one for my application) but i came across an interesting thread but for a Peugeot 406 which looks to have the same engine but has 2, maybe 3 electro valves with 2 being on the bulkhead ( https://www.406oc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20132 ) . I may have a go at replacing the EGR unit too but with it being nigh-on impossible to get to i need to find out which one i need so if someone could provide part numbers for the electro-valves and EGR unit i'd be most grateful. I'll also most likely try another can or two of EGR cleaner.

VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here you go:
Quin EGR.PNG
The EGR valve item (1) is part: 1628JZ, and priced @ £335.94
The Electrovalves item (6) are part: 1628ZT and priced @ £102.65 each

All VAT inclusive and from Peugeot direct, prices as of today.
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quintet
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

Thanks for that @GiveMeABreak but could possibly confirm that is definitely the correct engine pictured as my car does not have item 17, are the components pictured off a 110hp engine? (Mine is the 90hp engine). I've spent a while online looking at various RHY engines & there does appear to be different versions of the 90hp engine....which is confusing. Item(s) number 6 is mounted at the front of the engine & mine definitely only has one & there's no sign of additional pipelines or wiring indicating that one may have been removed in the past.
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My engine has a section of tube (which definitely looks factory fitted) as opposed to whatever item number 17 is.
My engine has a section of tube (which definitely looks factory fitted) as opposed to whatever item number 17 is.
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

I found out item number 17 is an air doser and is apparently only fitted on cars upto OPR 09884 & item number 14, an "exhaust gas water exchanger" is fitted upto OPR 09883 and it's a similar situation with the 2 electrovalves (pictured), whilst the part numbers are the same cars from OPR 09702 only have one electrovalve, the RP number on my car is a higher number meaning it's a *later spec engine in an early shape body (*i guess) which is why a number of items in that diagram are not on my car.

I still haven't really gotten anywhere with diagnosing the fault as it's not often used due to this problem (and a now replaced worn nsf wheel bearing) + it has a dead battery which won't help with the sensitive electrics but i have run the car without the MAF connected now and it goes so much better! I could buy a new MAF but i've read too many stories saying a new one works for 15-20 miles and then fails & having put 3 second hand ones on which made little (if not worsened) difference im reluctant to splash out on a new one.

I have managed to buy a new/old stock EGR valve but i've not yet fitted it, unfortunately there is more than one version too, 1628jz is what i bought but theres also 1628vt too, besides as it's a purely mechanical item im not sure it'd put the EML/anti pollution warning on. I might have a go at checking the power/earth to the MAF but i don't thisnk i can check it's performance output as that might be a job for an oscilloscope 8-[
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

Does anyone know if Peugeot wiring diagrams are available? I read on here somewhere that citroen ones are (at request inc donation etc) but Peugeot ones weren't, at least weren't at the time the thread was created. I have found one diagram but it shows x2 electrovalves but my 90hp car only has one so thats wrong & it was extremely basic anyway.

If i can I'm going to test the wiring with a multimeter but i also don't know what the voltage readings should be, anyone know? I'm guessing there will be x2 12v feeds, x1 earth but i don't know what the signal & other wire should read, particularly at different rpm's .

If the diagrams are available i will post up the rp number & vin but please bear in mind the diagram should only show one electrovalve & not two as per the previous diagram.
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6 way maf plug.
6 way maf plug.
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

I intend to look into the running fault with this engine again soon as it has on occasion blown out white smoke on start up a couple of times recently, it's definitely unburnt fuel & smells quite strong of it although it goes away after a short period (runs lumpy on start up when it does this). I don't know if this is cooler weather related or not & may have nothing to do with the sluggish/kangaroo'ing problems the car has always had but i intend to do a couple of tests but i don't have access to what the results should be, does anyone happen to know what the resistance should be on the injectors on this engine? I intend to purchase a leakoff test kit but does anyone know what mg's are ok/not ok on this 90hp engine? i'm guessing if all 4 reservoir bottles are (virtually) empty after 1 min of running it will indicate the injector return is ok. I may also buy a noides kit but i've never used them & not sure what to make of any results.
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

I carried out a leakoff test on this car & whilst such a test is by no means conclusive (whatever the result is) it indicates whatever the running fault & recently developed rough starting may not be a fault of the injectors, however in reality the only way to assess their true condition is to have them professionally tested. What i used was a budget leakoff kit which can be bought for around 20-30 pounds off Ebay But in my experience these are poor as the fittings supplied do not fit PSA injectors, at least not on this 90hp 2.0hdi engine, whilst they can be used i found the retaining clips (original off the car & used for the leakoff pipework) do not fit the injector connectors supplied with the kit. I used fitting number 2 as this seemed to work the best. The test was done on a relatively cold engine due to it's rough starting & the test was carried out for around two minutes. I also carried out a resistance check on the injectors (before & after the test) but without knowing what resistance the injectors should have it's a little pointless unless one happened to be very different to the other three. The resistance was 0.6-0.8 max, never going below or above those readings. My next test will most likely be on the wiring to see if there's any distinguishing pulse issues, i may do this with a test probe or i might buy a noids kit if i can source a suitable one. After this it may well go into a dealer to get the engine ecu updated with the latest software but i am left wondering why it's recently started starting lumpy, i can't remember if this happened before or after i changed the fuel filter, one thing i do know is i reused the original seal as the one that came with the genuine fuel filter (costing around 30.00) was badly twisted & just wouldn't fit in place, i should have returned it but didn't, unfortunately the original seal had swollen up a little after I'd taken it out & so that was awkward to refit too, i sprayed the filter housing with brake cleaner after finishing working on the vehicle today & I'll definitely keep an eye out for diesel residue/leaks on the filter housing.
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These look close enough to me, possibly just over 10% difference.
These look close enough to me, possibly just over 10% difference.
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Re: 2005 307 2.0 hdi hesitation

Post by quintet »

I wish to check the correction values on the injectors & fuel pressure but does anyone know what they actually should be? I've had a look at this video


but im not actually sure what the reading should be? i would guess if one injector is very different then that would indicate a fault but going off my leak off test i suspect i'll not see much difference. I did take the car to a main dealer recently and going off my leak off test they said it needs 4 new injectors....at £700 each that is just not going to happen, apparently there are no ECU updates available either which i find hard to believe but in the mean time i need to get to the bottom of the lousy cold starting the car has as it's chucking out a lot of white smoke and running very rough on cold start ups.

At the moment i still don't have a decent pp200 set-up so it'll have to be a stationary test as the laptop i have does not have a battery & need to be plugged into the mains all the time and even then it usually doesn't work.... :(


Just gonna put this video here to use as my own reference in future :


Came across this thread recently too, Turbo leak causing poor starting - https://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/commo ... t-307-hdi/
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