Burst suspension pipe at rear

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 9052
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 22:03
Location: France or NewZealand
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: -
1997 Citroen Xantia V6 (France)
1999 Citroen XM V6 ES9 (France)
2011 Peugeot 308 CC THP 155 (NZ)
1975 Jaguar XJ-S pre-HE (NZ)
x 825

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by xantia_v6 »

The problem with compression joints (and the UK MOT) I think has 2 factors:

1. A brass compression fitting on a steel pipe is not always easy to tension correctly such that the pipe is deformed to lock the olive in place.
2. The UK MOT is a visual inspection only, with no disassembly permitted, so an inspector has no way to determine if a non-original compression fitting has been appropriately and safely fitted, so all such fittings have been banned.
User avatar
ksanturion10
Posts: 228
Joined: 14 Oct 2018, 21:59
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
My Cars: Xantia Estate X1 1.8i, 16v
x 19

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by ksanturion10 »

white exec wrote: 04 Oct 2020, 21:04 The prohibition of compression-olive joints for braking systems is part of the detailed UK MoT regulations.
I will try to dig out the details when I get back to base.
As I said before, don't want to delve into the matter, I'm sure its all made up already :D.
xantia_v6 wrote: 04 Oct 2020, 23:28 The problem with compression joints (and the UK MOT) I think has 2 factors:

1. A brass compression fitting on a steel pipe is not always easy to tension correctly such that the pipe is deformed to lock the olive in place.
2. The UK MOT is a visual inspection only, with no disassembly permitted, so an inspector has no way to determine if a non-original compression fitting has been appropriately and safely fitted, so all such fittings have been banned.
1. There is a whole universe of brass (messing) compounds, that I'm pretty sure will sustain all the requirements of such a joint. But I'm referring steel hardened olives with steel fittings, so if you use the prescribed material and surface smoothness for the pipes, don't see how it will be inappropriate, when the producer states, that it can sustain 250 bars nominal pressure for hydraulic fluids. You must acknowledge, that this is a machine part, not something made in the garage - not that people can't come up with what they decide :roll: .
2. Yeah, kind of non sense reason I could also come up with ;). Can't mess with UK MOT from here, its too far west for me :) .

Apart from the jokes, those compression fittings are so easy to fit, that anybody can do them in no time.
It is still reliable for me, and you know, that I've putted it at the most unforgiving place ;)

BR
Martin
Only himself the stupid makes wrong, many are being confused by the clever :P
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by KennyW »

Hi All,

An update finally got the fuel tank lowered and confirmed it is the rear supply hydraulic suspension pipe. It has rusted at the plastic pipe holder at the rear of the tank.

There are silicone pads also fitted but this still didn't prevent the water running down the pipe and gathering at the bracket rusting through the pipe the rest of the pipe looks okay but!!!!!!!!!!!!

Waiting on the arrival of new pipe to fit and as the BOL refitting is the reverse of removal. :rofl2:

Kenny

PS Is there anything on service Citroen about the 'o' ring sizes ?
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36992
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by GiveMeABreak »

KennyW wrote: 04 Oct 2020, 17:30 Until I have the fuel tank removed I don't know which pipe it is but I suspect supply pipe rather than the return.

I think it maybe a bubble type flare.

I've looked at service box but can't find anything directly related to the pipe.

Marc, can you look if possible my VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].
Kenny
Sorry Kenny - I've only just seen your post - catching up. Here's the rear pipes - Supply and Return with part numbers if you don't already have these.
image_2020-10-08_174643.png
image_2020-10-08_175000.png
Return Piping Rear Suspension
(1) Hydraulic Oil Back Harness: 5270SE
(2) Hydraulic Oil Back Harness: 5270VV
(3) Hydraulic Oil Back Harness: 5270WR
Supply Piping Rear Suspension
(1) Hydraulic Tube: 9807562180
(2) Hydraulic Tube: 5270VP
(3) Hydraulic Tube: 5270VG
(4) Hydraulic Tube: 5270VF
(5) Hydraulic Pipe 2 Way Union: 5280T3
(6) Pressure Sensor: 5273A2
I can't remember now which one of mine went on the rear, but I had one replaced for a small leak. Apparently it is where the pipe bends in manufacture that creates a weak point for corrosion and ultimately a fail.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by KennyW »

Thanks Marc,

It's no 1 that has failed just above the fuel tank. All I need to know is the seal sizes. This is about 4.80mm dia pipe. seal required 5.5 x 4.5 x 1.0.

No 3 is also removed from 2 way union and this pipe is about 3.5mm Seal 4.5 x 3.5 x.1

Can't find anything giving sizes as seals are prefitted to part.

Out with my measuring stick !!!!!!!!!!!

Kenny

Update Just measured the o ring and I'm way out Pipe is probably 4.75mm, thread nut is 11mm, o ring 7.5mm x 4.5mm x1.5mm

Smaller pipe is 3.5mm o ring 6.5mm x 3.5 x 1.5

Flare end would appear to be a single flare.
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by KennyW »

Hi All,

An update, I have removed the pipe and it is a tiny hole the size of needle where the LDS came out.

I have removed the flare ends and this is what I found:

The pipe end appears to have single flare or is it the pressure of the pipe being screwed in causing the flare.

The pipe end would also appear to have a citroen bubble as per xantia's etc.

As per photo
5270half1.jpg
IMG_0070.JPG
IMG_0072.JPG
IMG_0073 (1).JPG
IMG_0074_LI.jpg
Circled is the citroen bubble and in the next photo metal 'seal' is forced over bubble flare.
IMG_0072_LI.jpg
Can anybody confirm my thoughts ?

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
User avatar
ksanturion10
Posts: 228
Joined: 14 Oct 2018, 21:59
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
My Cars: Xantia Estate X1 1.8i, 16v
x 19

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by ksanturion10 »

Nope :)
It resembles an adapter part for transferring the nut's axial clamping force over the smaller PTFE (I presume) back support washer for the green O-ring... 8-)
Only himself the stupid makes wrong, many are being confused by the clever :P
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by KennyW »

Thanks for the reply,
Just a more complicated version of the Xantia and previous hydraulic citroens then !
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
User avatar
ksanturion10
Posts: 228
Joined: 14 Oct 2018, 21:59
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
My Cars: Xantia Estate X1 1.8i, 16v
x 19

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by ksanturion10 »

Yes, it seems so... people are getting smarter by the day ;) :D
Only himself the stupid makes wrong, many are being confused by the clever :P
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by KennyW »

Well pipe fitted, everything back in engine bay, added 3 litres of LDS into tank. Only battery to be fitted.

Fuel tank and additive tank in place, but the fuel tank ring is a PITA to fit.

Will leave for another day as I am babysitting my 2 grandbairns.

Still have the exhaust to fit.

Have looked at fitting procedure for ring and will retry.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by KennyW »

Finally, finished rebuilding the car all that is left is the plastic trim and covers.

Suspension working, exhaust fitted.

All this work to fit a new pipe.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 9052
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 22:03
Location: France or NewZealand
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: -
1997 Citroen Xantia V6 (France)
1999 Citroen XM V6 ES9 (France)
2011 Peugeot 308 CC THP 155 (NZ)
1975 Jaguar XJ-S pre-HE (NZ)
x 825

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by xantia_v6 »

Just be thankful it was at the rear.

This video (in French) shows a front hose being changed on a C6 (along with the steering hoses), After removing the engine to improve access... The engine was actually out for other reasons, but I think you will get the point.



It is worth noting that that his pipes were repaired with bicone connectors, perhaps the French believe that they are safe in this application.
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by KennyW »

I wouldn't want that bill from the dealers :rofl2:

He's been reading haynes manuals again, remove engine for better access :lol:

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Jay-Bruce
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 509
Joined: 20 Mar 2019, 00:30
Location: North East Scotland
My Cars: BMW 635D
Citroen C5 Tourer (X7) 3.0HDi Exclusive
407 Coupe 2.7vh HDI
206 gti180
206 GranTurisme (Sold)
BX Gti16V (Phase2)
x 241

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by Jay-Bruce »

EDC5 wrote: 04 Oct 2020, 13:42 I assume the brake line repair kits that are used are flare rather than compression?

Soemthing like this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brake-Pipe-Fit ... B0779C2MSK
Those are just standard brake pipe fittings.
User avatar
KennyW
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2499
Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Letham, Fife
My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate
x 132

Re: Burst suspension pipe at rear

Post by KennyW »

Well folks I return to this thread as the X7 has developed another problem it will not rise or fall from the driving position which is handy to a degree.

Diagbox has given me the following fault codes

C1141 front height corrector
U1118 x2
U2118
and

U2005.

The new one is the front height corrector sensor

The suspension is reacting the way I would expect.

Any suggestions, I'm think new front sensor but what else.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Post Reply