The curse has struck again
Moderator: RichardW
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
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- Location: Letham, Fife
- My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: The curse has struck again
Chris,
This is what I was thinking about, the hydraulic pump in the Xantia has bigger pipes I know one was 6mm and I'm sure there is larger size possibly 9mm.
I did have the seals but passed them on.
What sizes of flaring tools are there and one of those work ?
Kenny
This is what I was thinking about, the hydraulic pump in the Xantia has bigger pipes I know one was 6mm and I'm sure there is larger size possibly 9mm.
I did have the seals but passed them on.
What sizes of flaring tools are there and one of those work ?
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- white exec
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: The curse has struck again
The tubular hydraulic pipe seals were used on 3,5, 4.5, and 6.35mm pipe, with swaged olive.
These are the seals (#10,11,12,13 Hydraulic Pipe Lining) There's also a 9.5mm one listed there, but I can't picture a 9.5mm pipe (on XM, at least) which uses this sort of sleeving. There are 10mm pipes on the Hydractive suspension (eg at the sphere mounts), but they use a different arrangement, and a 13-14mm thread. Maybe someone else can think of a 9.5mm sleeved item on one of our cars.
Swaging tools available, like this one:
https://shop.citroenclassics.co.uk/die- ... 2278-p.asp
but expensive, and only available in 3.5, 4.5, 6.35mm.
There are folk who would do swaging for you.
This lot are very good (I've used them before, for oil cooler and pipework):
https://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/Hose ... tings.html
and do all sorts of hose and adaptor fittings.
Don't think you could use a banjo bolt for the job (not enough flat surface), but something threaded might do ok. Thread could be loctite sealed, with the adaptor suitable for attached pipework.
Alternatively a suitably (threaded end) length of hydraulic pipe. They do those, too, rigid and flexy.
These are the seals (#10,11,12,13 Hydraulic Pipe Lining) There's also a 9.5mm one listed there, but I can't picture a 9.5mm pipe (on XM, at least) which uses this sort of sleeving. There are 10mm pipes on the Hydractive suspension (eg at the sphere mounts), but they use a different arrangement, and a 13-14mm thread. Maybe someone else can think of a 9.5mm sleeved item on one of our cars.
Swaging tools available, like this one:
https://shop.citroenclassics.co.uk/die- ... 2278-p.asp
but expensive, and only available in 3.5, 4.5, 6.35mm.
There are folk who would do swaging for you.
This lot are very good (I've used them before, for oil cooler and pipework):
https://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/Hose ... tings.html
and do all sorts of hose and adaptor fittings.
Don't think you could use a banjo bolt for the job (not enough flat surface), but something threaded might do ok. Thread could be loctite sealed, with the adaptor suitable for attached pipework.
Alternatively a suitably (threaded end) length of hydraulic pipe. They do those, too, rigid and flexy.
Chris
- bobins
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Re: The curse has struck again
I've just been out to measure them, and the O.D. of the aluminium pipe is about 12.2mm, and the O.D. of the steel pipe is around 10.1mm. These are the O.D.s of the pipe runs and not the O.D. of where the pipe enters the pinion housing.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- myglaren
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Ooops.
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Re: The curse has struck again
I wonder if Pleiades would be able to help - If they are open of course.
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
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Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: The curse has struck again
Thanks for the replies,
I was also thinking about Pleiades, I will given them a phone during the week to see if there open.
Kenny
I was also thinking about Pleiades, I will given them a phone during the week to see if there open.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2499
- Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
- Location: Letham, Fife
- My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: The curse has struck again
Message for Bobins, I've sent a pm with a request.
Kenny
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- bobins
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Re: The curse has struck again
Nothing received yet, Kenny. I've sent you a PM.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- bobins
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Re: The curse has struck again
I'm primarily putting these here for Kenny's benefit, but feel free to play along at home as well
Aluminium Pipe Dimensions: A: Swage Dia 16.70mm
B: Pipe Dia (same as F) 11.95mm
B1: Section Length 3.30mm
C: 'O' Ring Groove Dia 9.45mm
C1: 'O' Ring Groove Width 2.45mm
D: Section Length 8.60mm
E: Overall Length to Base of Swage 14.00mm
Steel Pipe Dimensions: G: Swage Dia 14.90mm
H: Section Length 3.70mm
I: 'O' Ring Groove Dia 8.30mm
I: 'O' Ring Groove Width 2.78mm
J: Overall Length to Base of Swage 11.58mm
K: Section Length 5.10mm
L: Pipe Dia 10.95mm
I mentioned previously that it is possible to split the Aluminium pipe near to the front left corner of the car so you only have to replace part of the pipe. It splits at a hose clip where the flexi hose attaches to the rigid pipe. Here's what the shorter (i.e. not the whole pipe as purchased from Citroen) length of pipe looks like:
It might be possible to get a pipe fabricator to make up an even shorter length of pipe and split and join in the new section midway along this section of flexi pipe:
Edited to correct measurement 'B'
Aluminium Pipe Dimensions: A: Swage Dia 16.70mm
B: Pipe Dia (same as F) 11.95mm
B1: Section Length 3.30mm
C: 'O' Ring Groove Dia 9.45mm
C1: 'O' Ring Groove Width 2.45mm
D: Section Length 8.60mm
E: Overall Length to Base of Swage 14.00mm
Steel Pipe Dimensions: G: Swage Dia 14.90mm
H: Section Length 3.70mm
I: 'O' Ring Groove Dia 8.30mm
I: 'O' Ring Groove Width 2.78mm
J: Overall Length to Base of Swage 11.58mm
K: Section Length 5.10mm
L: Pipe Dia 10.95mm
I mentioned previously that it is possible to split the Aluminium pipe near to the front left corner of the car so you only have to replace part of the pipe. It splits at a hose clip where the flexi hose attaches to the rigid pipe. Here's what the shorter (i.e. not the whole pipe as purchased from Citroen) length of pipe looks like:
It might be possible to get a pipe fabricator to make up an even shorter length of pipe and split and join in the new section midway along this section of flexi pipe:
Edited to correct measurement 'B'
Last edited by bobins on 27 Apr 2020, 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- white exec
- Moderating Team
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: The curse has struck again
Really helpful, Robin.
What was the diam of F, in the first photo? Same as L?
And what is the diameter of the bores in the casting - both the same?
What was the diam of F, in the first photo? Same as L?
And what is the diameter of the bores in the casting - both the same?
Chris
- bobins
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Re: The curse has struck again
F is same as B - 11.95mm
Last edited by bobins on 27 Apr 2020, 20:55, edited 2 times in total.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2499
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- Location: Letham, Fife
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C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: The curse has struck again
Thanks Bobins away to play, will come back with some ideas and results.
I didn't realise the HP pipe was steel and LP pipe was Aluminium.
Kenny
I didn't realise the HP pipe was steel and LP pipe was Aluminium.
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- bobins
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 5697
- Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
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Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5 - x 2871
Re: The curse has struck again
white exec wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 18:14 Really helpful, Robin.
What was the diam of F, in the first photo? Same as L?
And what is the diameter of the bores in the casting - both the same?
Bores in the casting:
11.16mm
12.16mm
NOTE - corrected measurement 'B' in above post.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2499
- Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
- Location: Letham, Fife
- My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: The curse has struck again
Hi All,
Had a look this morning under the car and leak is still minimal.
So still unsure what action to take ? I feel the need to remove same and check the pinion top seal but I have done the mod so can't see it through the footwell.
I have a feeling it is a leak from the LP pipe at the pinion.
So I'm looking for some more measurements if anybody can oblige. I need the diameter at the top of the pinion at the seal and the diameter of the steering shaft.
Since there is some strange watery substance falling from the sky, I can do some more research into another possible mod to protect the Pinion seal.
Further I need some measurements of the 6.35mm LHM seal ie OD & length obviously ID is 6.35mm.
Thanks again
Kenny
Had a look this morning under the car and leak is still minimal.
So still unsure what action to take ? I feel the need to remove same and check the pinion top seal but I have done the mod so can't see it through the footwell.
I have a feeling it is a leak from the LP pipe at the pinion.
So I'm looking for some more measurements if anybody can oblige. I need the diameter at the top of the pinion at the seal and the diameter of the steering shaft.
Since there is some strange watery substance falling from the sky, I can do some more research into another possible mod to protect the Pinion seal.
Further I need some measurements of the 6.35mm LHM seal ie OD & length obviously ID is 6.35mm.
Thanks again
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
- bobins
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 5697
- Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
- Location: Midhurst, West Sussex
- My Cars: Kia Sportage
Mazda BT-50
Land Rover SIII SWB
V-F-R800
SL320
MX5 - x 2871
Re: The curse has struck again
I added some measurements to some of the components on a post I made a year or so ago:
viewtopic.php?p=578822#p578822
...and subsequent posts.
viewtopic.php?p=578822#p578822
...and subsequent posts.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner
- KennyW
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 2499
- Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 21:22
- Location: Letham, Fife
- My Cars: Current Citroen's
C5 x7 2010
SWMBO C3 2012
Previous Citroen's
Xantia 2.0 90hp estate
Xantia 1.9 TD estate - x 132
Re: The curse has struck again
Thanks Bobins,
I forgot you did all that in the thread.
I also found Alastair's (Stickfingers) dealings with Steering Specialist Ltd who I've been in contact with.
I'm thinking about using them either to replace the rack I have or refurbish it.
If Stickyfingers wishes to comment please do.
Off to do more research with the info provided.
Thanks
Kenny
I forgot you did all that in the thread.
I also found Alastair's (Stickfingers) dealings with Steering Specialist Ltd who I've been in contact with.
I'm thinking about using them either to replace the rack I have or refurbish it.
If Stickyfingers wishes to comment please do.
Off to do more research with the info provided.
Thanks
Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.