C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

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AJM C5
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C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by AJM C5 » 11 Jul 2019, 15:56

Hi,

Software and PC arrived today finally. Installed DiagBox 7.57 OK.

Ran diagnostics, faults all in top section. Mainly BSI engine speed sensor, then suspension (which I know about, and will ignore until engine starts).

The ESS connection block was the only harness I disconnected, my fault not disconnecting the battery beforehand.

However, I attach several photos in batches showing other errors.

The engine was running perfectly before work on cambelt etc, and all put back together properly; caveat, I don't know if I damaged the ESS connector or not.

I have owned the vehicle just 2 months, last 3 weeks it has been in hospital...

Rgds

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Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 12 Jul 2019, 12:14, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Topic Split from "Cambelt change on an automatic c5 tourer 2010 2.0 HDI"

AJM C5
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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by AJM C5 » 11 Jul 2019, 16:05

...
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AJM C5
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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by AJM C5 » 11 Jul 2019, 16:14

There is no date on these error messages, so some could be before my time.

Shall I press.... 'Repair'?! :shock:

Rgds

AJM
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moizeau
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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by moizeau » 11 Jul 2019, 16:19

Note all codes and descriptions then clear them and see if they return. As you say, old ones could be lurking.

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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Jul 2019, 17:08

That's a lot of fault codes - but a lot of them are related.

All the ESP functions will be disabled if there is a problem with engine speed - and suspension data you can ignore for the present at those errors can be returned when the suspension ECU is interrogated.

Your starting issue though may be simpler - I saw that it has recorded 2 remotes and the engine ECU is unlocked - but none of the remotes are synchronised! That will stop the engine from being authorised to start. Here's the procedure:

Important: Wait at least 1 minute after pressing any button on the fob before you start this procedure, otherwise if a button is pressed on an unsynchronised fob, the BSI will go into anti scanning mode. Also very important to make sure the key is removed from the ignition during the 1 minute wait - because the transponder circuit is active and energising the fob, so needs to be removed.
  • Switch off the ignition and take out the key
  • Wait one minute without pressing the buttons of any remote control
  • Put a key into the ignition switch, move it to ignition positive (+ APC)
  • Within 10 seconds, press the locking button for 5 seconds
  • Switch off the ignition and take out the key
  • Repeat the procedure with the other keys from point N°3, otherwise move on to point N°7
  • Wait 30 seconds, the remote controls are active
See if that at least doesn't get the engine running.

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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by AJM C5 » 11 Jul 2019, 17:57

The remote fob / key issue only started when attempting the reset, before that they were working fine. I accept there may be an issue now, but wouldn't a total Repair via Diagbox be better?

Rgds
AJ

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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Jul 2019, 18:07

There's 2 separate issues AJ - programming and resynchronising.

Resynchronising doesn't require Diagbox and is needed if they become unsynched with the vehicle. Programming is usually only required when you are adding a new fob - in which case ALL the fobs have to be programmed together regardless in one session.

Try re-synching first. If that does not work, then you can try reprogramming - but to do that you will need your customer confidential code and all fobs. If you don't have the code, you cannot programme the keys. It can be obtained from Citroen on proof of address and ownership for between £20-30. Hence why I suggest you try the re-synching procedure first as it costs nothing.

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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by AJM C5 » 11 Jul 2019, 18:23

The fobs open and close the doors now already, after I tried resynching them post the failed reset, they lock the car, mirrors retract, then unlock, the lot. I think that error code refers to immediately after the reset when they stopped working.

Rgds

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Re:C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by AJM C5 » 12 Jul 2019, 07:05

Marc,

The key resync routine you described above is more or less what I did to get them both working again after following a YouTube how to video. The alarm gets activated and deactivated too, but don't know about the immobiliser. Window doesn't close still though. I have to say it's a bit disconcerting losing fob control on top of all else, and am a bit reluctant risking losing that again, but just hoping there is no need now... Apologies for not mentioning that before.

Today I am going to start erasing the errors, or maybe all of them if possible.

Cheers.

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Re:C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Jul 2019, 09:28

That is the official procedure that I posted for the C5 X7. It cannot do any harm.

It will also ensure the vehicle starts the car (assuming there is no other unrelated issue).

As for the window (s) these have anti-pinch deceives that need to be reinitialised whenever the battery is disconnected. Just hold the window down button till it reaches the bottom and then hold it up until it reaches the top. If the window stops, release the button and then reapply until it reaches the top. You may have to do this in stages when it gets to the top, hold for a few seconds, you may hear a slight click. That’s the anti pinch done. Apply to all windows.

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Re:C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Jul 2019, 11:19

I'm looking through some of those faults and the shear quantity of them - coupled with the communication errors is making me very suspicious that of the engine fuse box / but especially the Maxi Fuse part. The Maxi fuses provide supply to parts of the engine fuse box and the BSI.

During manhandling it is possible a short may of occurred, or the unit has been damaged. I would strongly suggest you remove the battery and inspect both the engine fusebox, all fuses and especially the maxi fuse box.

I know that a C6 owner had a multitude of faults and communications errors (too many different systems, and all at once). He replaced the Maxi fuse part and it got rid of the errors. They suspected that it had been upset and a short had occurred / damaging the unit - probably as so often happens the battery had not been removed before the work was being done.

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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Jul 2019, 11:40

This is what the Maxi Fuses are allocated to (not all options relate to your X7 - i.e. DT17 engine where marked and the additional suspension computer).
X7 Maxi Fuses.PNG
But there is a link here to your faults in the Power Steering, the ESP System (and associated faults), and the BSI supplies which may be resulting in the BSI errors and tail light fault for example. The BFH12 and BFH5 are the supplies to the cabin fuse boxes.

So I think that this is a prime suspect given the magnitude of system faults. It will certainly be worthy of investigation to see if there is an obvious damage or if any of the fuses have blown.

If there is a supplies problem, then it will of course affect the ability of the vehicle's systems to start the car. If the Fobs are synchronised and we know from the data that the engine ECU is not locked - then all those rail fuel pressure errors and such are possibly because there is no power to those systems.

I'll put up a guide to getting access to the supplies box shortly....

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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Jul 2019, 13:23

I've put this guide up here for getting to and potentially replacing / refitting the Maxi Fuse Box Unit (Supplies Protection & Management Unit) on the DW10BTED4 C5 X7.
X7 Maxi Fuses A.PNG
X7 Maxi Fuses B.PNG
Location
(1) Supplies protection and management unit.
The supply protection and management control unit (1)
is located on top of the battery.
Note: The supplies protection and management unit (1)
cuts the power supply to make the vehicle
safe in the event of a short-circuit.

Removing
Place a protector on the following elements:
  • Front LH wing
  • Left-hand front headlamp
  • Front grille
Disconnect the ancillaries battery
positive cable (at "a").
Remove:
  • The air intake ducts (according to equipment)
  • The air cleaner (according to equipment)
  • The cover (2)
Press (at "b") on the cover (3) of the fuse box.
Lift the engine fusebox cover (3) (towards the top).
Remove the cover of the fuse box (3).
X7 Maxi Fuses C.PNG
X7 Maxi Fuses D.PNG
Fit an insulating cap on the positive terminal
of the ancillaries battery (at "c").
Note: Always replace the nut (4).
Remove the nut (4); Remove the tamperproof label.
Disconnect and move aside the ancillaries battery positive cable.
Detach and move aside the electrical harnesses (at "d", "e").
Press (at "f", "g"): Slide the fusebox housing (1) upwards.
X7 Maxi Fuses E.PNG
X7 Maxi Fuses F.PNG
Disconnect the connector (Press the tongue (at "h")).Cut and remove the plastic clip (at "k").
Disconnect the connector (at "j").
Move aside the electrical harness.
X7 Maxi Fuses G.PNG
X7 Maxi Fuses H.PNG
Turn the power supply protection and management unit over.
Unclip (at "l").
Remove the cover of the fuse box (5) (In the direction of the arrow).
Fuse Reference
CAUTION: Identify and label each electrical wire with
the corresponding fuse identification before disconnecting the supplies protection and management unit (Vehicle breakdown (or potential risk))
.

Note: The number of fuses and wires varies according to the vehicle’s equipment
Identification of the fuses (Lower panel):
  • "m" Identification of the fuses on the supply protection and management unit
  • "n" Identification of the fuses on the cover of the fuse box (5)
Identify the electric wires (at "p") in relation to the identified fuses (at "m", "n").
X7 Maxi Fuses I.PNG
X7 Maxi Fuses J.PNG
Label the wires with the identification of the corresponding fuse (at "q") using some adhesive paper tape.
Note: Before removing the nuts (6), ensure that the labels (at "q") match the identifications (at "m", "n").
Identification of the fuses (Upper face):
  • "r" Identification of the fuses on the supply protection and management unit
  • "s" Identification of the fuses on the cover of the fuse box (3)
X7 Maxi Fuses K.PNG
Label the wires with the identification of the corresponding fuse (at "t") using some adhesive paper tape.
Note : Before removing the nuts (7), ensure that
the labels (at "q") match the identifications (at "r", "s").

Replacement: Supplies protection and management unit (new)

CAUTION: This operation is only carried out if the new part is available.

ESSENTIAL: When replacing the supply protection and management unit (new), save the mini-fuses F8 (20A) and F21 (5A) from the old unit. Check the continuity and the physical state of the fuses, then refit them on the new supply protection and management unit.
Note: The power supply protection and management unit is replaced by reconnecting wire by wire from the old part to the new part.
X7 Maxi Fuses L.PNG
X7 Maxi Fuses M.PNG
Fit the new part (8) beside the power supply protection
and management unit (1).
Note: Start the operation on the underside of the power supply protection and management unit.
CAUTION: Handle the electrical harness with care.
Perform the following operations (Wire by wire):
  • Remove the nut
  • Disconnect the power supply wire on the old part
  • Reconnect the power supply wire on the new part
  • Refit the nut
X7 Maxi Fuses N.PNG
X7 Maxi Fuses O.PNG
CAUTION: Adhere to the tightening torques.
Tighten the nuts (6), (7) to 0.5 daN.m, using tool [1603-3].
Note: This checking operation can be carried out by another person.
Check:
  • The correspondence of the references (at "r") with the labels (at "t") on each supply wire
  • The correspondence of the references (at "m") with the labels (at "q") on each supply wire
Reuse: Supplies protection and management unit

Removing
If the power supply protection and management unit is reused :
  • Remove the nuts (6) and (7) (Recover the nuts)
  • Disconnect the electrical wires and move them aside
Refitting

CAUTION: Adhere to the tightening torques.

Note: Before refitting the nuts (6), ensure that the labels
(at "q") match the marks (at "m", "n").


Perform the following operations (Wire by wire):
  • Reconnect the electrical wires
  • Fit the nuts (6)
Check that the marks "m" match the labels "q" of every power supply wire.

Note: Before refitting the nuts (7), ensure that the labels (at "t")
match the marks (at "r", "s").

Perform the following operations (Wire by wire):
  • Reconnect the electrical wires
  • Fit the nuts (7)
Check that the marks "r" match the labels "t" of every power supply wire.
Tighten the nuts (6), (7) to 0,5 daN.m ; Using tool [1603-3].

Refitting
X7 Maxi Fuses P.PNG
X7 Maxi Fuses Q.PNG
CAUTION: Always replace the nut (4); Fit a new tamperproof label (at "u").

CAUTION: Respect the tightening torque for the nut (4) (Vehicle breakdown (or potential risk)) .

Refit the nut (4) (new); Tighten to 1,2 daN.m ; Using tool [1603-3].
Fit a new tamperproof label (at "u").
Refit the cover of the fuse box (5).
Connect the connector (at "j").
Fit a new flexible clip (at "k").
Connect the connector (at "g").
Refit the fuse box (1).
Clip the electric harnesses (at "d", "e").
Remove the insulating plug (at "c").
Refit:
  • The cover of the fuse holder unit (3)
  • The cover (2)
CAUTION: If there is damage, secure
the supply protection and management unit (1)
on the ancillaries battery tray: Using the 2 screws (at "v").


CAUTION: Perform the operations that are required following
a reconnection of the ancillaries battery.


Reconnect the Battery (following the battery disconnect / reconnect procedure

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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by AJM C5 » 12 Jul 2019, 17:56

Geronimo!

Ran the Diagbox after doing key sync, rolled left trouser leg up, ran three times around the car backwards humming the French national anthem, cleared all faults, removed RH wheel and disconnected the Engine Speed Sensor, reconnected, cleared fault again, hummed the National anthem again while turning the ignition and she Started! Runs beautifully. Turned ignition off, restarted, runs beautifully! Left it for 15 minutes, had a cup of tea and a cigar, turned ignition, started beautifully, windows work, everything works on that front now, so a big thank you to you!

Tried to Donate, it failed twice with several retries, will do again shortly!

Syphoned off 2.5 litres of LDS and refilled to solve the remaining problem of rear self levelling.... But that's another thread!

Thank you so much Marc for your wonderful advice and mega efforts, it is greatly appreciated.

.

Can we talk about the Moon Landings again now please, that was surely the second best achievement of mankind after starting my C5 🤔😀😂

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Re: C5 X7 Multiple Electrical Systems Faults After Cambelt Change

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Jul 2019, 18:08

Excellent - just keep an eye on things for a bit - I'm pleased it wasn't any of the fuse boxes in the end.
AJM C5 wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 17:56
Can we talk about the Moon Landings again now please, that was surely the second best achievement of mankind after starting my C5 🤔😀😂
That reminds me I need to unlock that topic now... cooling off period has timed out.