Citroen Saxo gearboxes
Moderator: RichardW
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Citroen Saxo gearboxes
I have a low mileage diesel Saxo with a faulty synchromesh on second gear. I've had a gearbox mechanic look at it and he's quoting silly money to do the job. There are lots of Saxo for sale at knock down prices. Thing is they are mostly petrol models. Does anyone know if gearboxes are interchangeable between petrols and diesels?
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
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1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
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Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
I doubt it very much, there are 8 plus gearbox variants across the petrol ranges, yet alone the diesel option.
2205FY is the original diesel box part number
2205FY is the original diesel box part number
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Marc
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Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
GiveMeABreak wrote: ↑27 Mar 2019, 16:15 I doubt it very much, there are 8 plus gearbox variants across the petrol ranges, yet alone the diesel option.
2205FY is the original diesel box part number
It might be useful to look up which other PSA models used that box.
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Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
It was also used on the AX Diesel and on a Peugeot 106. That’s it from what I can see.
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Marc
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Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
Unless revs are very low, it crunches when going from 1st to 2nd gear. Also when going from 3rd to 2nd in crunches. All the other gear changes are fine.
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
- white exec
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 7445
- Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
- Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
- My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
Could be something more serious, of course, but has the clutch (cable) adjustment been checked - sufficient pedal movement to de-clutch adequately?
Also, check that gearbox is filled with 75W-80 gear oil, GL-4 . . . and not GL-5 or 75W-90 etc. The GL-4 makes for better operation of the synchromesh. Total Transmission 8 gear oil is Citroen's usual recommendation.
Also, check that gearbox is filled with 75W-80 gear oil, GL-4 . . . and not GL-5 or 75W-90 etc. The GL-4 makes for better operation of the synchromesh. Total Transmission 8 gear oil is Citroen's usual recommendation.
Chris
Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
Yes they are is the answer. They are all MA boxes and mate to TU engines.
Of course the ratios will be all over the place as diesel gearboxes are longer than petrol ones.
The VTR 'box i have sat in my garage is not far off a diesel in terms of ratios.
Of course the ratios will be all over the place as diesel gearboxes are longer than petrol ones.
The VTR 'box i have sat in my garage is not far off a diesel in terms of ratios.
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Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
Thanks for that! Sounds promising. I've been looking at the ratios of the different models and the ratios used in the 1360 engines seem to be the same as those in the diesels.
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
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Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
Alasdair
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Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
So here is the official Saxo Gearbox data - you can make your own minds up based on the facts....
Note the last section with the uprated boxes and the warning at the bottom about Gearbox interchangeability...
These are the gearboxes listed for the Saxo that were uprated and from build date August 2000:
Diesel variants are marked in Purple.
Key:
(1) Entreprise versions.
(2) VTS variant vehicle trim level.
(3) VTS Taiwan variant vehicle trim level.
(*) tyres : 165 x 70 R 13 or 165 x 65 R 14.
(**) tyre 185 x 55 R 14.
Special Features
This gearbox does not contain any adjustment.
This gearbox has a reverse brake (5th gear synchronizer).
This gearbox has a device that prohibits changing from 5th gear into reverse gear.
The length of the splines on the primary shaft, clutch end, is increased by 2,5 mm on gearboxes in the following sequences:
Note the last section with the uprated boxes and the warning at the bottom about Gearbox interchangeability...
(1) input shaft. (2) release bearing guide. (3) clutch housing. (4) gearbox casing. (5) intermediate plate. (6) Bearing retainer (bearing retaining plate). (7) driving gear (5th gear). (8) output shaft. (9) synchronizer (5th gear). (10) driven gear (5th gear). (11) driven gear (4th gear). (12) 3rd/4th synchronizer. (13) driven gear (3rd gear). (14) driven gear (2nd gear). (15) 1st/2nd synchronizer and reverse driven gear. (16) driven gear (1st gear). ( 17) differential crown wheel. (18) planet wheels. (19) sun wheels. (20) speedometer drive gear. (21) speedometer pinion. (22) differential box. |
Petrol Engines | |||||
Vehicle | Engine | Reference numbers | Validity - Start | Validity - End | differential - Diametre (mm) |
1.0i | CDZ (TU9M) | 20 CC 17 | 02/96 | - | 68 |
1.1i - 5 HP (*) | HDZ (TU1M) | 20 CC 17 | 02/96 | - | 68 |
1.1i - 4 HP (*) | HDZ (TU1M) | 20 CC 17 | 02/96 | - | 68 |
1.0i | CDZ (TU9M) | 20 CC 78 | 02/96 | - | 68 |
1.1i airbag | HDZ (TU1M) | 20 CC 78 | 02/96 | - | 68 |
1.4i | KFX (TU3JP) | 20 CC 04 | 02/96 | - | 68 |
1.4i airbag | KFX (TU3JP) | 20 CC 61 | 02/96 | - | 68 |
1.6i | NFZ (TU5JP) | 20 CC 05 | 02/96 | - | 77 |
1.6i 16V | NFX (TU5J4) | 20 CC 12 | 07/96 | - | 77 |
Diesel Engines | |||||
Vehicle | Engine | Reference numbers | Validity - Start | Validity - End | differential - Diametre (mm) |
1.5D - 4 HP (*) | VJY (TUD5) | 20 CC 57 | 07/96 | - | 68 |
1.5D - 4 HP (*) | VJZ (TUD5) | 20 CC 57 | 07/96 | - | 68 |
1.5D - 5 HP (*) | VJY (TUD5) | 20 CC 61 | 07/96 | - | 68 |
1.5D - 5 HP (*) | VJZ (TUD5) | 20 CC 61 | 07/96 | - | 68 |
Data | ||||||||
Reference Numbers | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Reverse gear | crown wheel and pinion | Speedometer drive gear |
20 CC 04 | 11x40 | 20x39 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
20 CC 05 (1) | 12x41 | 21x38 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
20 CC 12 (1) | 12x41 | 20x39 | 28x38 | 37x39 | 41x35 | 12x30 | 16x63 | 19x17 |
20 CC 13 | 12x41 | 21x38 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
20 CC 17 | 12x41 | 21x38 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30 | 14x60 | 19x17 (2) |
20 CC 17 | 12x41 | 21x38 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30 | 14x60 | 19x18 (3) |
20 CC 57 (1) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30 | 17x61 | 19x17 |
20 CC 61 (1) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
20 CC 78 (1) | 12x41 | 21x38 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30 | 14x60 | 19x17 |
These are the gearboxes listed for the Saxo that were uprated and from build date August 2000:
Engine - Research Type | Engine - Legislation Type | Reference Numbers | RPO number - Applicable Starting | RPO number - Applicable Ending | differential - Diametre (mm) |
TU9M (1) | CDZ | 20 CE 81 | 8421 | 8712 | 68 |
TU1M (1) | HDZ/HDY | - | - | - | 68 |
TU1JP (1) | HFX | 20 CF 03 | 8715 | - | 68 |
TU1M | HDZ/HDY | 20 CE 92 | 8421 | 8712 | 68 |
TU3JP | KFW | - | - | - | 68 |
- | - | 20 CF 11 | 8715 | - | 68 |
- | - | 20 CE 95 | 8421 | 8712 | 68 |
TU3JP (2) | KFW | - | - | - | 68 |
- | - | 20 CF 12 | 8715 | - | 68 |
- | - | 20 CE 73 | 8421 | 8712 | 68 |
TU3JP (3) | KFW | - | - | - | 68 |
TUD5 / B | VJU/VJX/VJZ | 20 CF 02 | 8715 | - | 68 |
TUD5 / B (1) | VJU/VJX/VJZ | - | - | - | 68 |
TU5JP (2) | - | 20 CD 60 | 8421 | 8712 | 77 |
TU5JP (2) | NFZ | - | - | - | 77 |
TU5JP (2) | NFT | 20 CN 05 | 8715 | - | 77 |
- | - | 20 CD 46 | 8421 | 8712 | 77 |
TU5J4 (2) | NFX | - | - | - | 77 |
- | - | 20 CN 03 | 8715 | - | 77 |
Key:
(1) Entreprise versions.
(2) VTS variant vehicle trim level.
(3) VTS Taiwan variant vehicle trim level.
TU9M (1), TU1M (1) and TU1JP (1) engines | ||||||||
Reference Numbers | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | Reverse Gear | Crown Wheel and Pinion | Speedometer Drive Gear |
20 CE 81 (*) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30x43 | 14x60 | 19x17 |
20 CF 03 (*) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 32x41 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30x43 | 14x60 | 19x17 |
TU1M and TU3JP engines | ||||||||
Reference Numbers | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | Reverse Gear | Crown Wheel and Pinion | Speedometer Drive Gear |
20 CE 92 (*) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30x43 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
20 CF 11 (*) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 32x41 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30x43 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
TU3JP (3) engine | ||||||||
Reference Numbers | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | Reverse Gear | Crown Wheel and Pinion | Speedometer Drive Gear |
20 CE 95 (*) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 28x38 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30x43 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
20 CF 12 (*) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 32x41 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30x43 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
TU3JP (3), TUD5 / B and TUD5 / B (1) engines | ||||||||
Reference Numbers | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | Reverse Gear | Crown Wheel and Pinion | Speedometer Drive Gear |
20 CE 73 (*) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 29x37 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30x43 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
20 CF 02 (*) | 11x40 | 20x39 | 32x41 | 40x39 | 43x33 | 12x30x43 | 17x64 | 19x17 |
TU5JP (2) engine | ||||||||
Reference Numbers | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | Reverse Gear | Crown Wheel and Pinion | Speedometer Drive Gear |
20 CD 60 (**) | 12x41 | 20x39 | 28x38 | 37x39 | 41x35 | 12x30x43 | 17x61 | 19x17 |
20 CN 05 (**) | 12x41 | 20x39 | 30x41 | 37x39 | 41x35 | 12x30x43 | 17x61 | 19x17 |
TU5J4 (2) engine | ||||||||
Reference numbers | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | Reverse gear | crown wheel and pinion | Speedometer drive gear |
20 CD 46 (**) | 12x41 | 20x39 | 28x38 | 37x39 | 41x35 | 12x30x43 | 16x63 | 19x17 |
20 CN 03 (**) | 12x41 | 20x39 | 30x41 | 37x39 | 41x35 | 12x30x43 | 16x63 | 19x17 |
(*) tyres : 165 x 70 R 13 or 165 x 65 R 14.
(**) tyre 185 x 55 R 14.
Special Features
This gearbox does not contain any adjustment.
This gearbox has a reverse brake (5th gear synchronizer).
This gearbox has a device that prohibits changing from 5th gear into reverse gear.
The length of the splines on the primary shaft, clutch end, is increased by 2,5 mm on gearboxes in the following sequences:
- 20 CF xx
- 20 CN xx
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
No problem. This is a topic that's been done to death in Saxos, 106s and AX's (i have an AX VTS) on other forums.
From the info subsequently posted it looks like the >99 1.4i petrol is the closest to the diesel box if it's for your '98 1.5D (read from your profile).
If you end up getting one of the VT gearboxes it's good practice to get the driveshafts as well. The diff can be different (not easily swapped on an MA 'box unlike BE/ML) and pay attention to whether you have a flat or curved hub flange as there is a change.
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1998 Citroen Saxo 1.5D
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Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
Question for Marc. Where do I find the reference number for my Saxo gearbox please. If it helps the VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
- GiveMeABreak
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- Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
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C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
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C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5644
Re: Citroen Saxo gearboxes
These are the only references under parts as per the diagram below, but look at the second picture to locate the identification labels / markings of the gearbox.
Click diagram to Zoom Identification:
There is also a gearbox repair kit: Part 229945 still available from Citroen for £376.91 (I know, silly money) containing all of the parts marked 'A':
There are also individual parts still available from the following Diagram for your Gearbox:
Click diagram to Zoom Identification:
( A) identification label stuck on the clutch operating lever. (B) location of engraving of serial and gearbox numbers (example : 20 CC 17). |
There are also individual parts still available from the following Diagram for your Gearbox:
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc