C4 Spacetourer drain and fill - Useless main dealer....

[CitROeNALD]

A main dealer gripe...

Car had been getting serviced at a main dealer. It has had services there for 7 years. Each time I would get a nice comprehensive checklist of all the things they monitored. One thing on the list was coolant. I assumed they were checking level and antifreeze properties, but it seems that may not have been the case.

In all that time from new there was never any recommendation for changing/flushing, mentioning a top up, or that there was an issue with it. However in the last few years I noticed that the coolant was getting less and less blue. It used to be quite a strong blue and now it is quite pale.

So, it has only just occurred to me. Their check was probably never about coolant quality or anti-freeze property. I imagine all their service check entailed was a glance at the level, and presumably a top up (if they even did that). If they did top it up i also have the awful thought they have just been using tap water too.

Coolant changes are not even part of their major service package. So the only way I could imagine it ever getting changed would be if I mentioned it, or that it got in a really bad state.

Needless to say I have finally moved away from the main dealer incompetence.

I am planning to drain and replenish with some fresh coolant myself.

A quick google search says that the c4 spacetourer (mk2 picasso) with the 1.6 blue hdi may take about 8 litres in total with about 5 litres draining when the lower rad hose is disconnected.

Can anyone else confirm what the total coolant volume is for this vehicle as I want to ensure I get the correct ratio.

In addition, does citroen only do 5litre readymix and 1litre concentrate? I want to stick with their fluid really.

Appreciate any help/advice.

[mickthemaverick]

It does seem that the main dealer is somewhat unreliable. My internet search did not produce a definite answer so I would suggest you contact a Citroen specialist like Chevronics or B L Autos and ask them. Good luck

[PaulC5]

As a temporary measure take a bit of coolant out and put it in the freezer to make sure it will not freeze in winter. Our freezer is set at -18°C so should not cause coolant to freeze. As your car is 8 years old, depending on which engine it has (you mention 1.6 hdi), it is not far off needing a timing belt replacement which would change the coolant. You do not need to wait for 10 years or so many miles and risk it failing early so combining the 2 will save a bit of money overall.

I always use concentrated anti freeze as you never know how much is left when draining and how dilute it may be. Put in the correct amount of 100% (once you know how much) and then top up with water. When you drain it collect it and then measure how much to help.

There might be a special procedure when refilling the anti freeze rather than just draining and then adding. Some have electric thermostats and Citroen may use a tool to give a higher level in the expansion tank to help get air out.

This is copied from the Citroen Owners Club site in a post dated 2/7/2017
In the Haynes manuals and the Citroen service box procedures it is recommended to use special tools 4520-T and 4222-T when filling the coolant since the max coolant level in the expansion tank is below the air bleed screws. All the tools do is raise the level of the coolant above the bleed screws so the air can be pushed out.

You can make a simple tool for less than £5 using an old expansion tank cap (or a new one for around £4), about 12 inches of basin waste pipe 32 mm diameter (1.25 inches) and the triangular section rubber seal from a 32 mm fitting such as a basin U bend or pipe connector. 2 m of the push fit waste pipe is £1.29 from Wickes. To make the tool prise out the tank cap internal valve then cut out a hole in the cap so the 32 mm pipe can just fit through it (drilling/Stanley knife/filing work). Push the pipe through the cap and fit the seal on the pipe.

To use it, fill the coolant in the expansion tank to just below the max level, fit the pipe in the tank so it extends in to the coolant to just below the max level, push the seal down to the tank neck and then tighten the cap on the tank to give an air tight seal. Add coolant in the pipe to about 2/3 of its height (use a funnel to avoid spilling) - the pipe will fill but there will be an air pocket in the tank so the tank does not fill up. Then open/close the bleed screws in turn until any air is displaced. If needed more coolant can be added in the pipe. Once the air is out, undo the cap which will release a slight bit of air pressure and the coolant in the pipe will run in to the expansion tank and the pipe can be removed without any spillage - the tank level should be at max. Then fit the normal cap to the expansion tank, check for any leaks and then run the engine. This diy tool worked well when I replaced the thermostat housing on our C5.

[CallyyllaC]

I had the coolant changed on mine when I first bought the car, although I didn't do the job myself. A friend did the timing belt for me at the time and changed the engine coolant while he was there.

I used Prestone Concentrate 4 Litre Coolant. From memory I had around half a bottle left afterwards, possibly a little less, so that may give you a rough idea of how much mine actually took during a normal drain/refill.

One thing I do distinctly remember is there being some annoyance around the radiator hose connection? I can't remember the exact details now, but I'm fairly sure it used some sort of non-standard fitting rather than just being simple.

Sorry I can't give you anything more concrete on that, but it may be worth checking before you start the job so you don't discover it halfway through.

For what it's worth, I've had the car for about four years now and I've only had to top the coolant up once since then, using a small fraction of what was left from that original 4 litre bottle.

[CitROeNALD]

I found my coolant concentration checker! It has a little float in it.

It seems that despite the colour change, the coolant is still protecting down to -35, which indicates it is still a good 50/50 mix.

Although some of the anti-corrosion properties of the coolant might be degrading if the colour has faded so much.

However, I plan to get the belt changed next year, so I will wait until then and it will get flushed at that point.

@paulc5 I did not realise the bleed process was so complicated with the c4 mk2.


I found this video and it seems the car may only need about 5 litres, according to how much he seemed to use. But he seemed to avoid any complex bleeding process.

[PaulC5]

An advantage of leaving it to the timing belt change is the coolant will be drained by removing the water pump so the stuff in the engine block drains out which does not happen when only draining via the radiator hose.

If you have the service schedule one page sheet that Citroen provided with your car when new it will likely say the coolant pH should be checked at services and not that it needs replacing. You can get an up to date one of these from your Citroen dealer service desk, it will have your VIN on it so will be specific to your car. It is not the service items list your garage will fill in as it is serviced. This topic shows what they look like viewtopic.php?t=80582 The latest version will also include any changes to the oil spec of which there has been for some engine types.

[CitROeNALD]

It seems the service schedule is "Check the PH of the coolant 80k miles / 4 years then every 16k / yearly"

There is no way to really confirm if they have ever done this as part of the service checks. Looking at the checklist they have always supplied, it only mentions a level check.

They have never recommended things beyond the scope of the 3 service packages, nor said anything along the lines of "these things are due, so this package is probably the best".

I have no idea if the dissipation of the colour indicates degradation that would affect the PH, but it is interesting.

I shall have to get myself some litmus paper and do a check.

[PaulC5]

Possibly you could ask for a Citroen service rather than a dealer service which may have a different check list they complete. When our 308 is serviced I always make sure the dealer does the Peugeot one particularly as the 1.5 hdi engine has a 10 year warranty against cam shaft chain failure. This also includes the coolant 4 year pH check but at the 4 year service they just changed the coolant and I let them get on with it but this way they do charge more for the service.

I had to Google search to see what coolant pH levels should be and AI gave this but I do not know if it is correct as I do not trust AI.
Interpreting Results
pH 8.5 to 10: Optimal alkaline range; the coolant is healthy.
pH 7.5 to 8.4: Acceptable, but starting to age.
pH 7.0 or lower: Acidic; flush and replace the coolant immediately to avoid engine damage.