DS3 Dsport Plus Issues

[idbr_ds3]

Hi Everyone,

Before I start, I'll apologise for the novel to follow...

I have a 2013 DS3 Dsport Plus with the 1.6 THP engine on 72k miles that I acquired around 4 months ago. Around a week after acquiring it, it started throwing an "Engine Repair Needed" warning. I took it to my local garage, who scanned it for fault codes. It was showing a P0016 code, suggesting a timing chain issue. At this time, the car ran absolutely fine, with none of the typical symptoms of a failed timing chain. My garage suggested replacement of both chain and cams.

The garage that I bought the car from contested this view and suggested that the problem was likely to be with the sensors only. I allowed them to replace the sensors. Around 3 days after this, I started the car and had immediate engine issues:

Significant oscillation from the engine bay
No power delivery

I assumed that this was symptomatic of the timing chain issue and had the chain replaced by my local garage (with 50% of the cost covered by the seller). I trust my garage, having used them for many years.

The replacement was not straightforward and required drilling out of seized bolts. This in turn caused damage to the female threads drilled out, meaning that the block had to be machined and have new helicals fitted.

For around 3 weeks afterwards, the car was fine. Then, the oscillation/power loss symptoms returned. My garage scanned the car again, this time it was showing misfires in cylinders 2 & 4. The garage replaced the spark plugs. This didn't fix the problem, so it went back to the garage. Now it was showing misfires in cylinders 2, 3 and 4. The garage then replaced the ignition coils. This hasn't fixed the problem either and now it's booked in for another garage visit. I don't have the actual codes thrown, apologies.

The symptoms typically only appear on startup. Turning the engine off and on again (sometimes 2 or 3 times) makes it go away. I've driven the car extensively in this state. The exception to this was a trip the other day, where the engine kicked mid-drive (at 60mph on a country road!) and pushed the car into limp mode. One other thing worth mentioning is that the fan runs hard on engine shutdown when (and only when) the symptoms are present.

I'm concerned that I may end up having to pay for another trial repair, without confidence that this will actually fix the problem. I've read extensively online and suggested root causes include:

Valve coking
High pressure fuel pump
Fuel pressure at intake

Is there anyone here that can provide advice on how to definitively identify the actual root cause of the issue? Any advice would be very gratefully received.

VIN: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Thanks in advance, Iain

[GiveMeABreak]

We really need the actual fault codes, then I can provide the appropriate descriptors, without these it will be guesswork and the possible unnecessary replacement of parts.

You obviously don't have it dealer serviced, as there's an outstanding After-sales campaign on this vehicle that would of been sorted back in 2017. It concerns:

Ref: GAV - Engine software/Water pump
Downloading the latest version of the engine control unit software, and replacing the turbocharger cooling electric water pump if necessary.

This work will be free of charge, so contact your dealer at some point and quote the GAV reference and registration / VIN.

[idbr_ds3]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for replying. I have visited the garage first thing this morning, the proprietor was a bit put out that I had sought external advice. He said that he would give me a call later with the codes. He hasn't done this yet. On the assumption that he won't, I've ordered a basic code reader from Amazon which should arrive tomorrow. I'll update once I know more.

I don't have the car's original service record, but do have a range of non-dealer service receipts. The car had a replacement turbo about a year ago, beyond that it's all just standard service / minor issue fix stuff. I'll enquire with my local dealer workshop re the GAV update.

Regards, Iain

[GiveMeABreak]

If you've paid the garage for a service / diagnostic, you're entitled to the codes. What's he got to hide?

[idbr_ds3]

I don't necessarily think that he has anything to hide. He's just taken umbrage at the fact that I've sought outside help. He's an old-timer, his view was that "nobody on these bloody internet sites has ever fixed a car". For me, I'm a data engineer by trade. Asking for advice on forums is a totally normal thing that has been very helpful before. Just a generational / cultural issue, I guess.

I have a long standing relationship with the garage, they've been good to me in the past. I don't want to spoil that. So I'll just try to manage him as best I can, whilst also ensuring that I get a range of views on the potential cause of my problems...

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so you know what to do when / if you get the codes.

[idbr_ds3]

Exactly. It's about shaping the conversation around approach. It cost me £250 to have the plugs and coils changed for zero benefit, so rather than continuing with trial and error, I want to try to zero in a bit.

Failing that, I'll ask them to leave a blow torch a bit too close next time it's in

[PaulC5]

The engine fan running hard on turning off reminds me of a problem with a 2010 C3 1.4 vti petrol we had. It was doing this and I think the dealer said there was a bad batch of temperature sensors. They did an official free Citroen fix which was to fit a second sensor to the thermostat housing and a short loom since this was a common thing. This was cheaper for Citroen than replacing the complete thermostat housing. It probably will not apply to your car but you might suspect a problem with the sensor.

[idbr_ds3]

Using a MOTOPOWER MP69033 scanner, these codes returned with displayed label:

P1336 - Manufacturer Control
P1340 - Manufacturer Control
P1338 - Manufacturer Control
P0313 - Misfired Detected With Low Fuel
P0087 - Fuel Rail / System Pressure Too Low

The P1336 code has associated freeze frame data:

DTCFRZF: P1336

FUELSYS2: N/A
LOAD_PCT(%): 72.5
ETC(C): 30
SHRTFT1(%): 0.0
LONGFT1(%): 0.0
MAP(kPa): 117
RPM(/min): 2004
VSS(km/h): 31
FRP: (kPa): 610.0

I couldn't find any freeze frame data for the other codes (accept that this may be operator error!)

Looking online, the first three appear to be misfires related to specific cylinders.

When it came back from the garage last time, they gave me a generic fuel treatment. This seemed to improve the symptoms for a couple of runs, before they came back with a vengeance. As a shot to nothing, I threw a bottle of STP Ultra Petrol System Cleaner in it this evening and gave it a bit of a run out. I parked the car for an hour, then took one of the kids to football training. The engine is running as sweet as you like and the engine warning light has turned off.

Given this and the selection of codes above, could this all be a result of a clogged fuel filter / system? I've been running it on bog standard E10, maybe it's not keen on this?

Edit: spelling

[PaulC5]

This topic suggests a fuel filter replacement might help and possibly shows where it is on a C4 with a 1.6 THP engine viewtopic.php?t=75173

[Sloppysod]

Can't help thinking, if you take it to your DS Automobiles dealer for your FREE warranty ( Ref: GAV - Engine software/Water pump
Downloading) work a couple things could happen, the software upgrade Marc mentioned may fix the car, while they're upgrading the software thevwill need to plug the car onto the OEM diagnostic system, which may find the fault, and you never know, they may even charge the diagnostic scan to DS Automobiles

[idbr_ds3]

@PaulC5, yes, I think this is a good next step. The car is due back at the garage for some additional work on Monday, so I'll add a filter change to the list.

@Sloppysod, I suspect that might be an optimistic view

[Sloppysod]

@Sloppysod, I suspect that might be an optimistic view

Think of it the other way, the dealer workshop wants work, more the better, part of the system update may include diagnostic check - what's to loose.

My farther-in-law bought a 5 year old full dealership serviced, Toyota Avensis, from me I only had it a few months, on his next visit as he had a problem of an unreliable ignition switch, caused by too many keys hanging on it. Anyway, as we were all going anyway he asked my local Toyota Dealer to fit the new lock. While it was with them they dipped the oil - why?. Anyway they said looks like it's loosing oil between services comeback in a few weeks, a week later he returned they checked the oil and it had used a little so they claimed on the Toyota warranty and fitted a new-short block free of charge. - Dealerships will bend over backwards to get work.

[gwest]

Re: ..was showing a P0016 code, suggesting a timing chain issue.

I found this note on the web: P0016 sets when the ECM detects 8 of the last 10 cam pulses occur during the incorrect crankshaft position.

I had this code with a THP200 engine and it turned out to be a clogged timing control solenoid. The usual methods of cleaning the screens etc did not work, but when I subjected them to severe cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaning bath they have worked fine ever since. Replacing them would have also been a solution.
The way to diagnose this problem is to collect live data comparing the actual valve timing with the reference value dictated by the ECU.