problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

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WJDijkstra
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problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by WJDijkstra »

Hi everyone, We've got a bit of an issue with our 206.

The engine had low compression, so swapped in a "new" engine, and she now starts and runs great again.
I also changed over the AL4 gearbox over to the new engine. I did drain a bit of oil from the gearbox, and refilled with that same oil after refitting. Because I did spill a a bit here and there I added about 300cc of general atf oil. The first few miles were totally problem free.
However, when pushing the go-pedal down quite hard (I guess the box would downshift 1 gear), it suddenly lost all drive, and we coasted to a stop. We can hear a buzzing sound when shifting to drive or reverse, but we're not getting any movement. No errors or lights on the dash, and don't have access to pp2000 (yet).

Any idea where I should start troubleshooting this? Disconnecting the 12V didn't help ;)
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by GiveMeABreak »

There is a special procedure to topping up the oil on Auto gearboxes. You can't just top it up, or you could end up over-filling it. The vehicle must be run until the gearbox is at a certain temperature and then filled up until you get a sequence of drips. If you haven't done this you can damage the box if it is over or under-filled.

We do have the complete oil drain & replacement procedure in our resources section, but this will require a membership upgrade to access:

C5 X7 AL4 Auto Gearbox Drain & Refill

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WJDijkstra
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by WJDijkstra »

Thanks for the quick reply, but my symptoms don't match the under/overfilled status. Also, knowing how to officially drain/fill doesn't help with our current issue! ;)
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I beg to differ.

The oil quantity can indeed have a direct consequence on the gearbox operation, but if you want to ignore advice, that's fine.

It may of course be another issue and once you get a proper diagnostic done, that may provide some further clues. The hydraulic block is very sensitive to both oil quality and quantity.
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by WJDijkstra »

I don't want to ignore advice, I was just thinking of how the symptoms appeared! the car was warmed up, bled the coolant, tested the gearbox on axle stands, all gears worked, put it back on wheels, tested drive going forward and reverse, shut her down for the night, drove away the next morning, and after 15 minutes of driving it lost the actual drive. I would've thought if the oil would be the culprit, I'd have issues much sooner? I have a lexia cable thingy on the way, so hopefully can do a proper diagnostic check soon!
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by Paul-R »

WJDijkstra wrote: 11 Mar 2024, 10:58Because I did spill a a bit here and there I added about 300cc of general atf oil.
Is general ATF oil suitable for the AL4 gearbox? It's not a huge amount and probably won't matter if as complete an oil change as possible is being contemplated.
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WJDijkstra
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by WJDijkstra »

I don't know if it's suitable, but I thought, since it was less than 7% of "new" fluid it wouldn't matter much... But before I do a full drain and fill I'd like to pinpoint the oil being the actual problem, we have kind of a small budget :(
edit: It was Kroon-oil atf almirol by the way
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Best to wait until you get your Lexia / PP2000 kit then pop up any codes you get along with your VIN. Until we get those, it will all be speculation as there can be many causes of faults with the gearbox.

If the clutch packs have gone then you may not get much evidence of slipping before it gives out. Although a different gearbox on my XM, I was on the way home when I first noticed a slight slip, but never made it all the way back - totally failed and had to leave it. Required an exchange refurbished box.
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by WJDijkstra »

Will do and report back! Thanks for the help so far :)
I already did some tests suggested on a different forum: totally no forward or reverse gear, also not in manual mode 3rd gear above 2k revs. gear selector matches the dash perfectly, not changing when wiggling. Just the buzzing sound when in (any) gear, no buzzing sound when in Park or neutral. I haven't opened the valve body cover (yet).

I've also checked the specs between the stock oil and the 300cc of new oil, and they match pretty well:

KROON ALMIROL
Dichtheid bij 15 °C, kg/l 0,849
Viscositeit 40 °C, mm²/s 35,80
Viscositeit 100 °C, mm²/s 7,30
Viscositeitsindex 175

Mobil ATF LT 71141
Density @ 15 C, g/cm3, ASTM D4052 0.855
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 C, mm2/s, ASTM D445 37.2
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C, mm2/s, ASTM D445 7.4
Viscosity Index, ASTM D2270 168
WJDijkstra
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by WJDijkstra »

just got pp2000 running, not measuring any oil pressure in the box. No oil pressure certainly causes our symptoms :)
Any thoughts on where to begin to solve this?
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by lcwin »

Check if your multifunctional selector is properly set or it won,t work. Another thing during installation you may have not push in the torque converter in properly. Overfilling al4 by 500 ml will no give problems. AL4 Oil viscosity is slightly higher than Dextron 3 so if you use it during high load and temp it may give problems
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by xantia_v6 »

When you fitted the transmission, was the torque converter fitted to the transmission first or the engine first. If the latter, then the transmission oil pump may not have engaged correctly and may be damaged.
WJDijkstra
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by WJDijkstra »

broke the oilpump.
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Re: problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

Post by myglaren »

:( :taz: