1995 306 XUD non start

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Orbit Motors
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1995 306 XUD non start

Post by Orbit Motors »

Morning all,

Struggling to find much regarding the specific problem I am having, and as I'm now running out of things to check, I thought it was time to ask here.

My 1.9 XUD n/a engine in my N reg 306 has refused to start via the key for some time now. I left it stored for a while over winter after discovering this due to a lack of time more than anything, but recently come back to it with a set of fresh eyes and ideas to no avail.

To summarise, to make it a bit easier for anyone more technically minded than me, this is what specifically I've observed:

- The battery is more than okay, nice steady voltage and performs well when load testing.
- Car does not start on the key. I can hear a click from an internal relay(s) which I'm assuming are what temporarily cuts power to things like lighting while the key is in the start position
- The ignition switch appears to be working as I'm getting 12V from the appropriate wire when turning the key to the start position
- The immobiliser and remote key are working correctly
- I have good continuity from the ignition switch to the starter motor solenoid
- I have good clean connections at critical points like the main wire from the starter to the battery, and to the alternator.
- I have removed, cleaned and tested the main earth wiring from the battery to the body and gearbox
- I have even tried another known good starter motor just in case it was something like an internal fault with a solenoid winding or similar
- the engine DOES start if you short the starter motor out with a screwdriver from the solenoid wire to the main big wire (from the vehicle's own power source)
- if you short it out to get it running, all seems normal. No dodgy noises, the fuel gets through fine etc.
- The fuses at what Haynes describe as the +ve battery control unit down near the nearside headlight all appear to be good (though it doesn't actually show if the appropriate wire is even fused anywhere anyway)
- I've taken apart the conduit for the wiring loom in the offside wheelarch and it is all as clean as when it left the factory. Same for the big plug in the engine bay where the loom is split.

Another oddity although this may be a coincidence, is that the front wipers have also stopped working (but the washer jets, plus the rear wiper and jets still work which rules out the fuse), I still need to test the wiper motor to see if it works on the bench.

I'm feeling a bit disheartened unsurprisingly, as what seems like what should be a simple repair is turning into a rather large headache. I'd like to get it back up and running so I can finally put a new MOT on it!

Does anyone have any idea if I might have missed something? Any input is much appreciated.
Cheers,
Miles

Satisfaction guaranteed or your dent back!
If it just about starts and drives, I'll probably buy it.


1995 Peugeot 306 XLd
2007 Citroën C6 Lignage

2003 Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD
PaulC5
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Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by PaulC5 »

If you have 12 volts from the ignition switch to the starter motor solenoid and it does not run the starter but if you take 12 volts direct from the battery to the starter bypassing the solenoid and it then turns, this does suggest the solenoid is the problem or its wiring. It could be its internal contacts are in poor condition. If you can not get another solenoid then it might mean you need to replace the starter although you appear to have tried this which is confusing. Can you hear the solenoid moving/clicking when you try to start it ?
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CitroJim
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Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by CitroJim »

Sounds like a high resistance has developed in tne ignition switch. Quite common on sone PSA vehicles of that vintage.

The way around it is to install a helper relay. Search around the forum and you'll find some detail. I did this on several V6 Xzntias and XMs...

I can give much more detail once I'm home again. Currently away...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Orbit Motors
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Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by Orbit Motors »

CitroJim wrote: 05 Mar 2024, 12:38 Sounds like a high resistance has developed in tne ignition switch. Quite common on sone PSA vehicles of that vintage.

The way around it is to install a helper relay. Search around the forum and you'll find some detail. I did this on several V6 Xzntias and XMs...

I can give much more detail once I'm home again. Currently away...
Interesting! I shall also have a proper look later when I'm home from work. This sounds like it might be a culprit
Cheers,
Miles

Satisfaction guaranteed or your dent back!
If it just about starts and drives, I'll probably buy it.


1995 Peugeot 306 XLd
2007 Citroën C6 Lignage

2003 Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD
PaulC5
Donor 2024
Posts: 314
Joined: 06 Jun 2023, 15:26
x 76

Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by PaulC5 »

I vaguely remember reading the Xsara Picasso ignition switch could suffer if the pollen filter was not replaced frequently.
This is also worth a read and gives extra things to check viewtopic.php?t=71398
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Oldpug
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Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by Oldpug »

Just a thought?? When you say the immobiliser works correctly, have you reset it?
Has your car got a small square button on the steering column plastic housing.
If so hold it in while you turn on the ignition.
The four ways should flicker.
Orbit Motors
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Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by Orbit Motors »

Oldpug wrote: 05 Mar 2024, 22:49 Just a thought?? When you say the immobiliser works correctly, have you reset it?
Has your car got a small square button on the steering column plastic housing.
If so hold it in while you turn on the ignition.
The four ways should flicker.
Yeah I had to do this as well already as I'd disconnected the battery for so long. Took the opportunity to change the key remote batteries too as they were quite old, works from further away now too!

The voltage drop from the ignition switch to the solenoid does appear to be the most likely culprit at the moment, as this would also explain why it had got weaker at actually turning over the motor in the months leading up to it giving up.

Thank you to Jim for the heads up on a helper relay, I now understand the assignment and will obtain a couple of bits to modify the circuit. Fingers crossed!
Cheers,
Miles

Satisfaction guaranteed or your dent back!
If it just about starts and drives, I'll probably buy it.


1995 Peugeot 306 XLd
2007 Citroën C6 Lignage

2003 Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD
Orbit Motors
Donor 2024
Posts: 119
Joined: 03 Nov 2022, 20:11
x 20

Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by Orbit Motors »

Gathered some components from Halfrauds near work the other day (though they have actually reduced a lot of their electrical gubbins section, makes me wonder if they are looking at getting rid of actual useful car parts and replacing it with some dross like designer baby seats or AutoGlym vapes or something... but anyway)

Picked up a fused relay (just to keep things tidy as I don't particularly like inline fuses as they look untidy), and also going to take the opportunity to install a hidden press switch on the old circuit while I'm at it, so picked a nice little chrome one up that I'll put somewhere.

Fingers crossed it should all be fitted today if it stops raining for 5 minutes. Wish me luck, and I will report back!
Cheers,
Miles

Satisfaction guaranteed or your dent back!
If it just about starts and drives, I'll probably buy it.


1995 Peugeot 306 XLd
2007 Citroën C6 Lignage

2003 Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD
Orbit Motors
Donor 2024
Posts: 119
Joined: 03 Nov 2022, 20:11
x 20

Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by Orbit Motors »

Absolutely pouring it down all day today, but I did as much of the work in the house as I could, and took my circuit out to wire it in.

Success! Kind of. The new circuit only works when I ran a new thick test wire from the relay to the starter solenoid. It won't work on the original wiring (white wire 100), which makes me think that probably isn't in the best of conditions either. Now I've just got to work out how and where to route a new wire from around the fuse box area in the fascia to the engine bay. The original loom goes through some sort of solidly moulded junction box near the wiper motor, and I don't fancy disturbing it too much.

Suggestions on where to run said wire are welcome! Big thanks to Jim too for your suggestion, today is a good day.
Cheers,
Miles

Satisfaction guaranteed or your dent back!
If it just about starts and drives, I'll probably buy it.


1995 Peugeot 306 XLd
2007 Citroën C6 Lignage

2003 Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD
User avatar
CitroJim
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Re: 1995 306 XUD non start

Post by CitroJim »

It's a big problem fining a spot to run a new wire Miles. You may get one through the grommet carrying the bonnet release cable, the rear window screenwash pipe or even the clutch cable. The heater box air intake may offer an option too. You certainly don't want to disturb that big multi-connector.

Don't be tempted to use the steering column grommet. The constant movement could chafe the wire and cause the starter to run when it shouldn't.

It may be the start contacts on the ignition switch are badly enough damaged they won't even operate a relay. In that case, go all modern and use a push-button to operate the starter via the relay!
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...