C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

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MH123456
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C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

My wife's car developed fault codes P2562 and P1497 after turning into a hill at low revs. It suggests there's a problem with the turbo position actuation sensor which is common on 1.4 and 1.6 HDI engines. I've ordered a new sensor from eBay and cleared the faults using a Lexia kit. The first time this occurred it was a permanent fault, possibly because we were borrowing the car from the in-laws who had the problem for a while before it was gifted shortly after, the faults were cleared then and didn't reappear until today, almost a year later as temp faults. Will let you know the outcome soon after replacing the sensor at the weekend. Could be a cheap fix for others at around £20 if this works well.
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

Progress update...

So the faults are temporary and as such doesn't turn on the EML/MIL until after three ignition cycles after clearing codes. It was due an MOT recently and I asked them to reset the codes to test (another £30 even though I have the kit to do it myself, the EML/MIL illuminated when we started the car to get to the MOT), so it passed with a couple of small exhaust welds until we drove it away and the EML/MIL presented itself again.

First thing I did before the MOT was to replace the copy position sensor on the actuator. It's fairly straight-forward but I recommend as others do, to replace the bolts with the new sensor, M4X100 is what you should need and you should detach the actuator from the turbo to remove the sensor due to the position of another bracket obscuring access to one of the bolts and, it makes it so much easier with the potential of saving the original bolts if you're careful.

After the MOT I replaced the solenoid for the turbo. It's a tight squeeze to get to but with a flexible extension or angle adapter to screwdriver and 10mm driver socket as well as 10mm ratchet socket (to loosen and tighten fully) it's easily achievable with care. The first time I took it off to test (it was worn compared to the new one, but not too bad - some air was escaping) the clamp on the end hose went back on just fine with some nail pincers but, deformation of the hose clamp sent me loopy for over an hour trying to reattach it after replacing the solenoid the second time. I've resorted to ordering a small jubilee clip and popping a couple of cable-ties on for a short time yesterday.

What I should have done right at the start, is to test the actuator itself - I only did that after the solenoid replacement failed to solve the problem. To do that, pull the vacuum hose from the bottom of the actuator, it can be done without removing any other parts. Pull the actuator lever, tightly cover the hole in the pipe you removed the hose from with your finger and release the actuator lever. If it holds or only slightly moves then holds, the actuator diaphragm is good and it's something in the vacuum circuit causing the error. In my case the actuator has failed. You can really only get this new with the copy position sensor attached and not separately so it's an expensive fix especially if, you explore the cheap fixes without ruling out the most expensive one first. The turbo itself is fine but, I could be bitten with that soon if it's not fixed ASAP because the vein screw is self tightening and on an inactive turbo can come loose and damage the veins requiring a replacement or rebuild.

I thought I was being clever to start with but it's cost around £20 for a new copy position sensor, £30 for a new solenoid, 80p for a clip and now £80 for a new actuator. A simple test requiring no tools and I could have saved around £50.

Being paranoid I think this won't work either but, in any case I will update again, hopefully this weekend.
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Thanks for posting the updates.
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

Today I replaced the actuator and tried to get the adjustment on the arm to about the same length from the mounting plate to the vein lever using the old one as a reference. The faults are still there for underboost but far closer to the reference values than 0, around 6-7% off so I adjusted the arm so that when the arm is retracted it is just a bit further back than the vein lever when pulled to it's stopper. I haven't checked the codes but the engine fault appeared when starting and when revved so I suspect I've got overboost now. Before I write a summary on the procedure, can anyone tell me: where the actuator arm is connected to the vein lever, what is the distance between no boost and full boost (i.e. the full play)?

Replacing the actuator

1. Remove the hose from the air box to the actuator
a. Use a 10mm socket to remove the bolt securing the hose to the turbo
b. Unclip the breather pipe
c. Gently pull the hose from the breather hose and turbo and then from the air box and put aside

2. Unfasten the turbo hose above the heatshield where the black box is connected to the turbo
a. Use a 10mm socket on the top screw securing this to the turbo
b. Use a 4-5" extension to remove the lower bolt, a magnetic tool is useful to prevent dropping the bolt, but it can be done using only your hands
c. Lift the hose box away from the turbo and towards the front of the car making sure you don't pull it further than required to get to the two nuts at the top of the heatshield

3. Remove the heatshield
a. Use a 10mm socket and 4-5" extension to loosen the nuts securing the top of the heatshield, these can be retrieved by hand but it's easier to use a magnetic tool
b. Use a 10mm spanner to loosen the bolt at the bottom of the heatshield (a rachet spanner makes this a little quicker
c. I managed to extract the bolt using both hands either side of the bolt

4. Carefully pull the heatshield from under those hose and put aside
5. Remove the circlip holding the actuator arm to the vein lever using a small screwdriver to pull it free and your finger pressed against it to catch the circlip
When I replaced this after removing the actuator to replace the sensor, the clip had worked free since and was missing, so the car had gone into limp mode when the arm fell off the lever. I recommend getting a few replacements in advance if you don't get one with the new actuator. I didn't but had washers that were a similar size, so I cut out a portion of the washers and stretched one over then squeezed it tight with small pliers. It's a pig to get back off but I did that by pushing two screwdrivers in the gap of the washer and twisted them against each other to loosen it before bending it off again with pliers. A real faff, but doable until I get some proper circlips.
6. Remove the actuator
a. Unplug the sensor wire using a flat blade screwdriver to compress the retaining clip
b. If you can, push the vacuum hose from the bottom rube of the actuator but, this can be done with the actuator loose when you can rotate it to get better access
c. Use a 10mm socket to remove the two bolts securing the actuator to the turbo
d. Gently prise the vacuum hose from the actuator now you have access if not already removed
e. Carefully navigate the actuator out

7. Adjust the new actuator arm
a. Make sure the old actuator arm is fully extended (for example, if the spring is broken)
b. Measure the distance from the turbo side of the mounting plate to the centre of the hole at the end of the lever arm
c. Adjust the new actuator so the measurements are the same (take a little more care than I did with several different measurements)

8. Refitting should just be a reversal of the above steps
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MH123456
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

Code read P2565 - Open circuit on the turbo actuator position copy sensor - looks like I extended the arm too far and it's not registering when vacuum is applied because the sensor pin is being pushed in too far.

Will provide updates tomorrow but the other codes have gone now.
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

viewtopic.php?t=65952

4.95v limit. I'll get the M-meter out and use that to adjust the range. Looks like the actuator is allowed to pull a little too far causing the voltage to go over the threshold. I did take it out again earlier to compare several measurements. It's exactly the same as the original as far as I can tell but could be out by a few mms. I'm guessing it should be 4.9v or just over at idle when vacuum is applied constantly.Glad I made a few of the circlip alternative magic washers!
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

Success!

Took the heatshield off and put everything else back. Took off another make-shift circlip, shortened the actuator arm by four half turns. Used a small zip-tie to hold it on and started the car - fault 1. Repeated shortening by four half turns, zip-tie and ignition - fault 2. Third time's a charm and no under-boost at the moment. Geometry and possibly the angle of the mount on the replacement actuator makes it difficult to accurately compare the two with a tape measure. I did at first replace the sensor on the actuator with the replacement I bought earlier, noticing that the replacement was better quality and looked like the original, whereas the one that came with the actuator was more flimsy with a softer black plastic probe (the pin in the centre), so happy to leave that one on instead.
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

Well maybe not so much success, but progress at least. It was running fine for a couple of days with multiple starts and the low boost condition came back, with the difference to the reference value it looks like another small adjustment needs to be done. If I get to the threshold on the position copy sensor (full vacuum) and get it out of that position and the under-boost still logs then I suspect the replacement solenoid first and will replace with the one I took off.
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

I've done a minor service on the C3. The first time with this new car (new for us) and getting the three bolts off at the front of the plastic guard under the engine was the most taxing thing (it won't be going back on until I'm confident it's clean), then finding my 27mm socket for the oil filter was too deep made it very frustrating with a trip to B&Q for a cheap regular socket. The listings for air filter and sump plug for this car are completely wrong at all outlets. Anyway, the MIL has been on for quite some time now, though the only code is P2562 now that the actuator has been adjusted a little more. I refitted the old solenoid and it took six restarts, revving to over 2K RPM to trigger the MIL after a reset with the same code. I think I need to make a couple of small adjustments to the actuator to increase boost a little more without going beyond the limit where the copy position sensor is pushed beyond its limit on the actuator when vacuum is fully applied. Hopefully on the way to getting the right actuator adjustment from under-boost, though I'm thinking this could be a vacuum hose problem, so if another adjustment doesn't sort it then I'll get the vacuum meter on some hoses and check it's holding.

Watch this space.
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Re: C3 Picasso 1.6 HDI fault p2562 and p1497

Post by MH123456 »

Well, due for another MOT after replacing the turbo actuator I have been forced to get to the bottom of the problem. Luckily with it being temp faults, I paid for the tester to clear the codes after it failed last time and it didn't show any permanent faults until driving away from the test centre. My silly reason for not fixing already is I was fairly confident from the readings in Lexia that it wasn't too far out of wack to worry. That, and sheer laziness. I have two spare solenoids and two spare wastegate position copy sensors. It was neither of those two things but I want to mention the position sensor I got by itself, is very poor quality and the probe is slighty longer than the original - so be on the lookout for poor, cheap copies; there are good copies out there though.

The problem was adjustment of the actuator rod. The original sensor had slight fade showing the extent of the travel at 10mm; from this I used the vaccuum tester to load the actuator, adjusted the rod to the point at which the wastegate is fully closed and started the car. Immediately I got P2565 which is effectively the opposite of P2562 for this operation so, shortened the rod with one complete turn. This time it throw a fault straight away but after revving over 2000rpm a few times it appeared again. Another turn and I can't get either fault to appear after five full ignition cycles and revving for each one to actuate the turbo several times a cycle.

The problem I had is there are so many threads about boost actuators and variable vane turbos that I was convinced my car had a VNT and it might be related to that. I finally realised what I had was a basic variable wastegate vaccuum actuator which didn't conform to the same basic settings as earlier vaccuum models. This one needs slightly more range of movement for the wastegate so you don't set it to half the top of the stud through the mounting hole with the wastegate closed, it needs about double that range of movement. I'm sure there will be those who disagree but, for me it's fixed and I think it's probably on the smoother, lower boost end so should be better for the engine.
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