Xsara Picasso engine mounts failed?

Unread post by **captainkephart** » 01 Mar 2023, 12:04

Hi All,

After 'stunt jump' over a brutal speed bump (was dark and wet is my excuse) I'm concerned the engine mountings may have been ripped / split. Seems to be more vibration and engine movement and exhaust front joint creaking.

Can't see any underside damage / exhaust was not hit.

The lower mount is OK, easy to check), but can't for life of me see how to get at the upper / gearbox one to visually check them.

Any suggestionms? Or is this a "Remove the engine first job!"

Thanks, Captain K

Unread post by **MattBLancs** » 01 Mar 2023, 13:03

Not sure if the 1.6 petrol was the MA gearbox (which I'm not really familiar with) or the BE gearbox. But on a BE, mounting is on the top. It's normally well hidden with air filter housing, intake pipework and often battery and associated box helping to hide it. Normally all of these aren't that bad to remove.

If you are recreating scenes from Bullitt then best get it on film, not that it'll help with fault diagnosis, just for entertainment purposes!

Unread post by **captainkephart** » 01 Mar 2023, 14:21

Hi Matt,

Thanks, sorry, should've said is the 1.6 DOHC petrol, 2008.

So the gearbox side sounds doable ... probably need to hang upside down to see ... yes a video might be possible

(not as young as I was) ...

The cambelt side ... ?

Cheers, Capn K

Unread post by **MattBLancs** » 01 Mar 2023, 14:45

: Quick eBay engine bay photo

Sorry, looks accessible to me? (Obviously engine supported from above or below whilst taking mount off)

Sorry if I've wrong end of the stick!

Unread post by **captainkephart** » 01 Mar 2023, 16:00

Hi Matt,

Thanks again.

I was hoping to be able to to test it without taking it apart!
But thanks, I now know I have to do some work ...

Cheers, Captain K

Unread post by **MattBLancs** » 01 Mar 2023, 16:27

captainkephart wrote: 01 Mar 2023, 16:00 Hi Matt,

Thanks again.

I was hoping to be able to to test it without taking it apart!
But thanks, I now know I have to do some work ...

Cheers, Captain K

I'd price up a new one, might be as easy to just set to and replace by the time you've got at it. The ones I've changed before (all but gearbox on 406 Coupe and lower rear one on my C5) are pretty cheap, aftermarket parts (£5-£8 each from memory) lower needs a press and usually driveshaft out, gearbox one just bolts on.
Not sure on your upper timing belt end one as looks a bit different, but would think just bolt on too.

Unread post by **captainkephart** » 02 Mar 2023, 18:45

Hi Matt,

Have investigated.
Offside OK.
Gearbox side it's easy to move the centre bolt side to side (see below, view from above).
Have a horrible feeling that the mounting bracket has snapped, or worse the bolt castings in the top of the gearbox have cracked.

Have ordered new engine mount. Will see what I find when I take it apart.

Thanks again, Captain K

Unread post by **MattBLancs** » 02 Mar 2023, 20:27

Plenty of pictures please when you dig into this.
From what you've described does sound like something snapped.

Quite an unusual failure!

A younger, more foolish version of me used to "get air" on occasion (hump back bridges rather too tempting!!) But I never broke anything in my mk2 Golf or first 306. Had a failure in the Coupe on a VERY bumpy road, but that was the sump grounding out (cracked rather than smashed to smithereens luckily!!) But that was more a case of a hump in just the wrong spot when front suspension on full compression.

Unread post by **captainkephart** » 03 Mar 2023, 15:34

Hi all,
Well, answer is, nothing broken, mount is just perished to mush inside - as photos below show, have anotated them in case that helps anyone

Mistake I made when checking before, was when I levered the top of the mounting stud it was moving because the Engine Was Moving, not because the stud was broken, doh!

New parts Monday (will do the driver's side top mounting as well).
Ha ha, frost or snow forecast and car is on driveway and engine is not warm (as it was today), lovely

Also noticed slight leak from clutch slave cylinder, so will do as well while air filter etc removed.

Ciao, Capn K

PS: The 'stunt jump' must have shaken the mush loose? That 'something must be wrong so I'll now look for it' effect?
(sorry, Matt "Captain Kephart's Flying Picasso" is only on Betamax tape).

Unread post by **captainkephart** » 07 Mar 2023, 10:03

Hi All,

Have done replacements, some suggestions to others who might do this.

1. Support the engine under sump and gearbox. There's no single balance point under sump. Engine still tends to flop forward to radiator ... oops.

2. So replace one mounting at a time, don't take both off at once as engine weight tries to take over!

3. Gearbox side mounting. The hole in the new one is oval / 'racetrack' shaped by design. I thought mine had worn oval, but that's how it is supposed to be! (see 2nd photo). Mounting rubber had still perished so not wasted effort.

Cheers, Capn K

PS: Leak from slave cylinder ... no that's drops of red anti-freeze not red brake fluid ...
Hope not a head gasket leak, can't see where else it's coming from. Have checked head bolt tightness, two in the front / gearbox side near 'leak' tightened slightly, others OK. Will see. Well, engine has done 120k miles.

Unread post by **MattBLancs** » 07 Mar 2023, 12:55

Thanks for the update, glad you got it sorted though a few exciting moments by the sound of things.

Yes one at once is best and engine is keep to move around as soon as one is loosened off.

Not sure why missed your reply on the third, I could have told you that the gearbox mount hole is supposed to be oval as you later found out.

Interestingly, your gearbox looks like a BE gearbox to me - it's interesting as I believe thus is the only application where the smaller petrol (e.g. 1.4, 1.6, TU series) isn't fastened to a MA gearbox rather than a BE. (I've read of 106 GTi owners, having turbocharged there 1.6, then having broken the MA gearbox with the extra power, specifically seeking out the 1.6 BE gearbox as per yours!)

Unread post by **MattBLancs** » 07 Mar 2023, 12:56

Coolant leak - check all these hose connections. There's also likely a gasket between thermostat housing and head too, all roughly above slave cylinder location

: Hoses

Unread post by **captainkephart** » 07 Mar 2023, 15:06

Thanks Matt, will check again for leaks.
Cheers, Capn K

PS Re gearbox ... must be cause of the stunt jump, all that extra somethingorother!
Puzzled ... previous owner mild as can be, can't see why he would've put in the BE box ...

Unread post by **MattBLancs** » 07 Mar 2023, 15:23

captainkephart wrote: 07 Mar 2023, 15:06 Thanks Matt, will check again for leaks.
Cheers, Capn K

PS Re gearbox ... must be cause of the stunt jump, all that extra somethingorother!
Puzzled ... previous owner mild as can be, can't see why he would've put in the BE box ...

No sorry, it's me talking in riddles!

Normally TU engines always come with an MA gearbox.
Weirdly from new these were fitted with the BE gearbox instead - but as far as I know they're the only TU with a BE - just a quirk, am sure there's a reason but can't think why!

Some examples of discussion on this gearbox:
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showth ... p?t=474551

And seems can buy conversion kits specifically for it:
http://www.atspeedracing.co.uk/products ... conversion

https://spoox.co.uk/conversion-kits/483 ... n-kit.html
£1300 without gearbox!!!!!

Unread post by **captainkephart** » 07 Mar 2023, 15:27

Epic discussion about BE for rallying, one post asks

"Are OEM gears be good enough, or do they need to be special sauce diamond encrusted ones? "

Whaaat?

French Car Forum