2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

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MH123456
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My Cars: 2001 Peugeot Partner Combi MPV 1.9d (m49, WJY, DW8B)
2015 Citroen C3 Picasso Exclusive 1.6HDi (DV6DTED)
2007 Ford Focus 1.6 HDI (small bearing washed after DPF problems)
2006 Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec (still see in town)
2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 Auto (scrapped)
2001 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 (scrapped)
2001 Renault Clio Sport 1.2 16v (still see in town)
2000 Renault Clio 1.2 8v (sold)
1995 Peugeot 205 1.9d (sold)
1996 VW Passat 1.9 CL (sold)
1990 Rover Metro Clubman 1.0 (sold)
x 6

2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by MH123456 »

Vehicle details:
Peugeot Partner Combi Mk1, 2001, 1.9d WJY
Vehicle background:
Bought in November, working but leaking head gasket, drove fine but needed coolant topping up regularly. 190K+ miles though 70K in the last three years which could indicate replacement BSI/instrument cluster previously. Found the coolant level sensor gunked up and disconnected
Works done:
Head gasket, water pump, pulleys, tensioners, radiator, timing belt, aux belt all replaced, coolant sensor cleaned checked and reconnected, though the O-ring isn't sealing well so some leakage over the connection. Noticed the lower EGR valve vacuum hose connection snapped, attempted to reconnect with superglue but with obvious consequences, so will disconnect EGR vacuum hoses and plug them to disable EGR. I did find the engine end of the EGR pipe was slightly loose but have been able to repair with careful application of exhaust sealant. Noticed the battery holder to be detached from the chassis so added a couple of bolts, so might have been replaced previously along with the engine ECU
Result:
Van starts well, no leaks, no stutters, drives well but the instrument cluster has stopped working - no rev counter, speedo, fuel level, indicator indicators, LCD feed, etc but the warning lights are working correctly such as oil and airbag
Diagnoses:
Read with Lexia/PP2000 due to it being so old it needs PP2000 and have permanent faults in BSI for VAN data wire and VAN data BAR communication failures, along with engine ECU reference and inability to read engine ECU faults, no communication with the radio ECU though the radio functions perfectly and I was able to remove the tape, a Cat Stevens' compilation. So far I've disconnected the instrument panel, attempted to gain access to its innards but it is firmly encapsulated with the various clips and pins, not having a printed circuit film but rather a solid board firmly attached to the needles which I don't want to break. The radio has been disconnected to determine if there is interference on the VAN from that. BSI removed and in doing so I've noticed two very cleanly cut wires at the location of the circular connection in the footwell behind the BSI which don't appear to have been disconnected at any point, they're just not connected - one beige and one white wire. The BSI is bone dry, as are the earth points in the driver's footwell and both the inner wings at the front of the bonnet. I've checked all fuses are OK and reconnected them all. There is no sign of water ingress or corrosion I can identify. I've yet to unpack the multimeter but the car hasn't moved since disconnecting the battery a month ago and has been sheltered.
Questions:
  • With the current price of a second hand instrument cluster for this van (two connections - white and black) being rare and as expensive as a repair by BBA-Reman, the works that have been done, the reasonably good condition of the vehicle and the history, is there something more obvious that I'm missing to fix the instrument panel problem?
  • I've sunk a good £200 into it getting it back to good running order with only the instrument panel being the problem, so without any more investment is there more I can do to fix the problem without taking the wrong pill?
  • Could a leak onto the coolant level sensor connection cause problems on the VAN bus?
  • Could the engine ECU have been replaced without a matching BSI by using the original ECU to trick the BSI into accepting the different ECU? If so, how do I fix this without having the original ECU?
  • If the VIN for the radio/instrument panel/engine ECU/BSI doesn't match at any point, would this cause the BSI to disable communication with the other components?
  • Is there a simple way to diagnose a faulty instrument cluster?
  • Is there an easy way to check the BSI matches ECU & Instrument cluster?
  • Errm..... help?
A long time is a lifetime and a lifetime's too short
wheeler
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Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by wheeler »

MH123456 wrote: 25 Jun 2022, 20:42
  • If the VIN for the radio/instrument panel/engine ECU/BSI doesn't match at any point, would this cause the BSI to disable communication with the other components?
  • Is there a simple way to diagnose a faulty instrument cluster?
  • Is there an easy way to check the BSI matches ECU & Instrument cluster?
  • Errm..... help?
The instrument panel is not matched to any other component on the car & (apart from saved mileage) second hand instrument panels can be swapped freely between other cars.
If the VIN is not matched between ECU, BSI or radio it will not stop comms.
Firstly you need to check that the panel has all its power supplies & earths and ideally scope the VAN lines at the panel.
Have you checked all the fuses?
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MH123456
Posts: 36
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 19:52
Location: Cumbria
My Cars: 2001 Peugeot Partner Combi MPV 1.9d (m49, WJY, DW8B)
2015 Citroen C3 Picasso Exclusive 1.6HDi (DV6DTED)
2007 Ford Focus 1.6 HDI (small bearing washed after DPF problems)
2006 Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec (still see in town)
2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 Auto (scrapped)
2001 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 (scrapped)
2001 Renault Clio Sport 1.2 16v (still see in town)
2000 Renault Clio 1.2 8v (sold)
1995 Peugeot 205 1.9d (sold)
1996 VW Passat 1.9 CL (sold)
1990 Rover Metro Clubman 1.0 (sold)
x 6

Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by MH123456 »

Thanks Wheeler, that dismisses a couple of worries I had with potential coding problems.

I'll recheck all the fuses, test the lines to the BSI, probably take the fuse boxes out along with some more interior trim to make room for inspection and cleaning. Inevitably I'll find some more trim clips that need replacing, some other half-done repairs to tidy up or a rodents' nest, given the state it was in when I got it. The dash will come out too, there's a problem with the fan output selection. Rain today and my son has assumed a free taxi service so it'll need to wait for now.

SEDRE doesn't give me anything for the specific instrument panel I have, at least I've not found it yet. When did they change to CAN? You never know, now the BSI is out, things shuffled about a bit it'll work first time when I put it all back together. I live in hope.

If I find anything useful, I'll get some photos with any successes and explain what worked.
A long time is a lifetime and a lifetime's too short
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MH123456
Posts: 36
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 19:52
Location: Cumbria
My Cars: 2001 Peugeot Partner Combi MPV 1.9d (m49, WJY, DW8B)
2015 Citroen C3 Picasso Exclusive 1.6HDi (DV6DTED)
2007 Ford Focus 1.6 HDI (small bearing washed after DPF problems)
2006 Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec (still see in town)
2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 Auto (scrapped)
2001 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 (scrapped)
2001 Renault Clio Sport 1.2 16v (still see in town)
2000 Renault Clio 1.2 8v (sold)
1995 Peugeot 205 1.9d (sold)
1996 VW Passat 1.9 CL (sold)
1990 Rover Metro Clubman 1.0 (sold)
x 6

Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by MH123456 »

MH123456 wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 14:32 SEDRE doesn't give me anything for the specific instrument panel I have
Found it :-D
A long time is a lifetime and a lifetime's too short
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MH123456
Posts: 36
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 19:52
Location: Cumbria
My Cars: 2001 Peugeot Partner Combi MPV 1.9d (m49, WJY, DW8B)
2015 Citroen C3 Picasso Exclusive 1.6HDi (DV6DTED)
2007 Ford Focus 1.6 HDI (small bearing washed after DPF problems)
2006 Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec (still see in town)
2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 Auto (scrapped)
2001 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 (scrapped)
2001 Renault Clio Sport 1.2 16v (still see in town)
2000 Renault Clio 1.2 8v (sold)
1995 Peugeot 205 1.9d (sold)
1996 VW Passat 1.9 CL (sold)
1990 Rover Metro Clubman 1.0 (sold)
x 6

Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by MH123456 »

Got time to strip the instrument panel this evening. It'll need glue for the black needle caps that snapped off when removing the speed and rev needles.

There's resistance from the battery and other positives to ground on the panel which went high, settled then disappeared differently for each one. Assuming I've not knackered it more the theory is it should work when other problems are resolved. I've not checked the voltage from the battery to the connector yet, but both grounds from the connector to various points on the car have almost no resistance at all.

I'll recheck all fuses with the multimeter in case of a break I can't see. There are some relays according to SEDRE but, I did select the left hand drive option to obtain the correct diagram for the instrument cluster - all right hand options have the old panel with around 5 connections and an analogue trip/odometer. The screws will go back into the right place too - countersunk on the the vents, at least it provides an opportunity to clean the corrosion from the radio antenna terminal, or I could get my cheap mp3, bluetooth, car-phone radio I took out of the Pic and replaced the old CD player before it was scrapped 3 years ago (I still have the adapters for the loom and aerial to improve reception).

It would be a shame for this van to end this way after having treated the little amount of rust, replacing so much with very little cost. It's a fantastic little family car, it even came with a roof rack and almost a full can of spray paint. I promise to weld the sill if it behaves too!
A long time is a lifetime and a lifetime's too short
wheeler
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Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by wheeler »

MH123456 wrote: 26 Jun 2022, 14:32 When did they change to CAN?
They changed to CAN on the mk3 model from 2007.
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Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by ozvtr »

Does this vehicle run the same CAN-VAN system as other PSA vehicles did up to (about) 2005?
That is: CAN BUS, body VAN1, body VAN2 and comfort VAN? Same BSI? Or is it an earlier iteration?
wheeler
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Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by wheeler »

Depends on what shape it is, the changeover was between 2001-2002.
The mk1 model became multiplexed (basic comfort VAN only) around late 1999.
The mk2 facelift model from late 2001 was VAN/CAN (only the under bonnet stuff was CAN).
Then the mk3 from 2007 went full CAN.
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MH123456
Posts: 36
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 19:52
Location: Cumbria
My Cars: 2001 Peugeot Partner Combi MPV 1.9d (m49, WJY, DW8B)
2015 Citroen C3 Picasso Exclusive 1.6HDi (DV6DTED)
2007 Ford Focus 1.6 HDI (small bearing washed after DPF problems)
2006 Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec (still see in town)
2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 Auto (scrapped)
2001 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 (scrapped)
2001 Renault Clio Sport 1.2 16v (still see in town)
2000 Renault Clio 1.2 8v (sold)
1995 Peugeot 205 1.9d (sold)
1996 VW Passat 1.9 CL (sold)
1990 Rover Metro Clubman 1.0 (sold)
x 6

Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by MH123456 »

My wife and I had a couple of Picassos, hence the Lexia which paid for itself many times over with tweaking the cruise control, auto gearbox and coding new keys. From what I can remember both the 51 plate and the 54 plate were both VAN/CAN so makes sense commercial vehicles were upgraded slightly later.

The 2001 Mk1 Combi I have now is certainly just Comfort VAN which I'm guessing is mostly the instrument cluster. It's dry outside at the moment, so if I get some motivation I'll get the fuses and VAN wires checked.
A long time is a lifetime and a lifetime's too short
wheeler
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Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by wheeler »

The easy way to tell, if the horn is operated by pushing the airbag on the steering wheel then it’s Bi VAN/CAN.
If the horn push button is on the end of one of the stalks then its basic comfort VAN only.
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MH123456
Posts: 36
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 19:52
Location: Cumbria
My Cars: 2001 Peugeot Partner Combi MPV 1.9d (m49, WJY, DW8B)
2015 Citroen C3 Picasso Exclusive 1.6HDi (DV6DTED)
2007 Ford Focus 1.6 HDI (small bearing washed after DPF problems)
2006 Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec (still see in town)
2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 Auto (scrapped)
2001 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 (scrapped)
2001 Renault Clio Sport 1.2 16v (still see in town)
2000 Renault Clio 1.2 8v (sold)
1995 Peugeot 205 1.9d (sold)
1996 VW Passat 1.9 CL (sold)
1990 Rover Metro Clubman 1.0 (sold)
x 6

Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by MH123456 »

I like the simplicity Wheeler - it's VAN only. I get the need to slam something but I prefer a little self-control and precision beratement.

All fuses tested with 100 percent continuity. Tried to get the multimeter on the wires through connectors but a little tricky with paperclips. I'll find a more reliable way of doing it soon, but only had about 20 minutes before I needed to be inside to deal with two disruptive older teenagers and a fabulous eight year old who needs their sleep before an early school trip tomorrow.
IMG_2395.JPG
Attached is a photo of the grey round and for the sake of future searches, circular connector in the front footwell behind the BSI. The two wires I described as disconnected may have fried after a long period of corrosion when reconnecting the battery recently, but still look to be clean cut with no heat damage. If I knew what they were for that would be brilliant. I've tried every wire to the instrument panel connector but none of them show a current. I've also tried the checking continuity on the VAN lines but I should think I would have more success with everything reconnected and testing between HI/LOW to find the differences.

Just for reference to the photo you can see a beige wire loop on the black connector at the top of the photo.

There's a black and a grey connector and from the looks of them no VAN lines on either. The black one is fully connected so not worrying about that.

More to come and I'm bound to get boring after a while but promise to post a solution if one is found.
A long time is a lifetime and a lifetime's too short
Hell Razor5543
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Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

You were saying the fuses had good continuity. Something you might want to try is to use an abrasive rubber block and clean the blades of the fuses (and spray some contact cleaner into each fuse holder). Several years ago the rear wiper on my first C5 was intermittent (and I don't mean deliberately). When I cleaned the fuse blades it worked properly. Recently the suspension on my current C5 came up with a failure warning, and (eventually) I cleaned the fuse blades (I actually did all of the engine bay fuses during a BSi reset), and the suspension hasn't played up since.

This is the sort of rubber block I mean;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184890820000 ... Sw8gtgyf2c
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wheeler
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Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by wheeler »

OK the 'cut' wires may be spare repair wires, many PSA vehicles have these, there can be up to 4 of them 4? you should be able ti ID the wires if you can see the codes prinded on the sleeving. If this is what it is the other end of them can be found underneath the under bonnet fusebox. If they are damaged wires you would see a terminal in the connector with no wire attached to it.
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MH123456
Posts: 36
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 19:52
Location: Cumbria
My Cars: 2001 Peugeot Partner Combi MPV 1.9d (m49, WJY, DW8B)
2015 Citroen C3 Picasso Exclusive 1.6HDi (DV6DTED)
2007 Ford Focus 1.6 HDI (small bearing washed after DPF problems)
2006 Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec (still see in town)
2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 Auto (scrapped)
2001 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 (scrapped)
2001 Renault Clio Sport 1.2 16v (still see in town)
2000 Renault Clio 1.2 8v (sold)
1995 Peugeot 205 1.9d (sold)
1996 VW Passat 1.9 CL (sold)
1990 Rover Metro Clubman 1.0 (sold)
x 6

Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by MH123456 »

Thanks Wheeler, I'll squeeze in and see if I can get some codes. I was trying to read them but gave up when my elbows got scuffed and pains started again in my lower back - had to delay working on the trailing arm bushes of the focus for almost two months until recovered last time, so being careful. I've not had much luck with cars since September last year. I've done a good job fixing them, but getting there has been painful.

Spare wires they could be but as for a lone connector - some of them have two or even three wires connected, so it might have broken from one of those, there is one with a beige wire which looks a little loose but I'll follow your sound advice and check the codes and compare at the other end.

All the fuses were OK Hell Razor, I've usually found problems with electrical connections can be resolved by reseating them where no corrosion is evident, such as with chip creep with older computer components. I'll keep the rubber abrasives in mind though I should be able to achieve a similar result with some fine wet & dry.
A long time is a lifetime and a lifetime's too short
User avatar
MH123456
Posts: 36
Joined: 17 Nov 2021, 19:52
Location: Cumbria
My Cars: 2001 Peugeot Partner Combi MPV 1.9d (m49, WJY, DW8B)
2015 Citroen C3 Picasso Exclusive 1.6HDi (DV6DTED)
2007 Ford Focus 1.6 HDI (small bearing washed after DPF problems)
2006 Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec (still see in town)
2003 Citroen Xsara Picasso 2.0 Auto (scrapped)
2001 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 (scrapped)
2001 Renault Clio Sport 1.2 16v (still see in town)
2000 Renault Clio 1.2 8v (sold)
1995 Peugeot 205 1.9d (sold)
1996 VW Passat 1.9 CL (sold)
1990 Rover Metro Clubman 1.0 (sold)
x 6

Re: 2001 Partner Instrument Cluster

Post by MH123456 »

Not had a chance to do more yet but one idea - I did some rewiring on the lighter socket before I brought the car on the drive which required removal of the centre console above the airbag ecu. I may have dislodged or trapped wires there which could cause interference on the VAN bus. I don't remember the instrument panel not working but fairly certain it was or would have muttered more profanities. The wiring for a new socket isn't finished so will disconnect the airbag ecu as another troubleshooting point. Need to check the loom under the scuttle panel and the wires to the BSM/fusebox too. Determined to find a solution and start a new thread with fun photos of the mods and restyling I intend to embarrass the kids with.
A long time is a lifetime and a lifetime's too short
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