C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

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aspire_helen
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C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by aspire_helen »

Aaargh! Owned the car for 20 years and have lost the remote key for the first time. I locked the car by the remote so I assume it is deadlocked and alarmed. I haven't the slightest clue where to start , however I do have the following:
1. The Citroen key code card (credit card with magnetic strip) in an envelope with various numbers including a 4 digit "vehicle code".
2. An identical remote key from a another C5 of the same age.
3. A Lexia3 - many thanks to Paul-R.
4. Replacement drivers door glass, should I need to break it.
Does anyone have a step-by-step guide to opening the car and replacing the key?
Many thanks
Hell Razor5543
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Item 2 is not going to help you. Once a key is coded to a car it cannot be altered or used on any other car. This has been tried numerous times in the past by Forum members, and nobody has succeeded in getting the used key to work.

I believe (I DON'T know, but Marc would be able to advise you) that, with proof of ownership and the key code, Citroen could provide you with a replacement key (TOH suggests the price of around £70). This will fit the lock, but the alarm will still go off. You will have to put up with this for a while (20 minutes?), as the key and the car don't 'know' each other. You will need to run a Lexia session, and introduce the key and car to each other.

I would suggest you get two keys, so you have a spare (just in case).

If you do find the lost key (after you have got new ones, and the car accepts them) that key will not work AT THAT TIME. Only the keys that are 'introduced' to a car at the same Lexia session will be recognised. However, if you were to then run another Lexia session with ALL of the keys (lost/fond and new) they will then all work.
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 14 Apr 2022, 15:07, edited 2 times in total.
Gibbo2286
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by Gibbo2286 »

If you have the key code card most locksmiths will be able to make you a key nowadays. I used a mobile guy called 'Jock the lock.' he came out and did it in his van, charged £70 but gave me a 10% pensioner's discount.

https://www.freeindex.co.uk/profile(joc ... 79143.htm
wheeler
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by wheeler »

A dealer can supply a key blade no problem to your key number (if your not in a hurry) however if the locks have ever been changed in the past the key will be useless.
aspire_helen
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by aspire_helen »

Thanks for the replies. Shame about not being able to reprogram another C5 key, and much appreciated advice regarding Lexia programming. Having owned the C5 for 20years, just recently having my own Lexia opens a whole bag of fun (???). Here is another point......something Timpsons said worries me.
I dropped into my local Timpsons who said they could offer me 3 duplicate options (when/if I had the key) 1. A cut blade only £20. 2. A cut blade and reprogrammed transponder chip £75 and 3. A replacement remote key which would duplicate all the original key functions (eg remote locks, windows etc) £200+. BUT.....what worried me is that they would only cut a copy of the key blade only (ie no transponder) on a cash only, non-receipted basis BECAUSE they said if the blade was put in the ignition (or turned as well?) without a transponder chip present the security system could freeze and cost £1000s to replace. That seems bizarre! If that were the case, if someone presented their Citroen key with a flat fob battery, would it not do likewise? Ah, come to think of it....does the transponder need a battery?? Is the battery in the fob just to power the remote control functions? But even so, an otherwise faulty or absent chip surely should not cause damage....just disappointment!! Are Timpsons talking through their......??? Dont you just love the C5......every month a different problem to explore!
wheeler
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by wheeler »

On citroen models turning the ignition on with no or an incorrect transponder wont do any harm whatsoever. There may be some vehicles where this is the case so sounds like they are just being cautious.
The transponder does not require a battery.
aspire_helen
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by aspire_helen »

Regarding re-programming a 2nd hand key from another C5 Mk1, there are 2 aspects:
1. The transponder. 2. The HF remote functions.
1. The transponder chip in the key can be replaced by a new one. They can be bought on Ebay for around £4, type ID46 PCF7936, but double check the printing on the existing chip. The tiny chip is hidden in the plastic moulding which contains the blade (not in the fob body). Remove the blade and its moulding holder from body by splitting the body and pulling out the release button/pivot - there is a good video on Youtube detailing that. The blade base appears to be a solid moulding, but it is hollow. There is a tiny cover which can be prised off by a sharp blade. The chip is now visible, a tiny piece of black plastic pressed into a recess. It can be prised out, with difficulty - I used a pair of scalpel blades. The chip has its ID written on the side - magnifying glass needed. Regarding programming - I note that when recoding a new key/transponder with Lexia, ALL keys have to be coded in the same session, one after another, INCLUDING the existing key(s). Up to 5 keys can be coded in one session. Important note - to program the code, each key needs to be put in the ignition and turned ....HENCE a duplicate key with a blank blade must be cut first.
2. The HF functions of the remote fob can be initialised during the Lexia session, but can also be done at any time without a Lexia.

Some useful info for the C5 key (the bulbous 3-button type):
Body type code=CE0523 (its moulded on the key body)
Blade blank type code = SX9
Transponder chip = ID46 PCF7936 AS (but double check using the magnifying glass).
Op frequency 433MHz
aspire_helen
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by aspire_helen »

Timpsons Key Copy - Horror Story
Went to Timpsons in the ASDA carpark in Grantham to copy the blade (only) for £20. No problem, took seconds. Tried it in passenger lock with door open (just in case, and what a good job too). The key went in but did not turn. Took it back, he fettled it a little, tried it again, same result. I took it back again, he fettled some more, I tried it a 3rd time. BUT, the key only went half way in, no further, and worse would not come out either. I took the man to the car, and he tried to remove it unsuccessfully. I said I assume Timpsons have a solution to this and he asked me to come back in 15 minutes. Of course, the car was still securable through the remote and driver’s door lock.
On my return, I checked the car. The Timpsons advertising tag had gone and the key was now fully home. I tried to turn it, and it did….fully, both ways, round and around, but to no effect and the key would not come out. I went back to the man. He now stated that “my lock has seized”, was “common with an old car” and was not Timpsons fault. I did not accept this, after all I had tried my own key in all 3 locks before first inserting the Timpsons key, and had done so again in the passenger door lock after theirs failed. So, he asked me to give him 5 minutes. When I returned he had just answered the phone and was listening intently to someone evidently giving him instructions. He then grabbed a hammer and pincers (from his shoe repair bench ???) and said he was going to try and extract the key. “Without damaging the lock?” I asked. “yes” he said. His demeanour had changed, because now he was saying “Timpsons would sort it”. So I watched on as he tapped the key in with the hammer, then grabbed it with pliers and eventually wiggled it out after about a minute. I then asked him to standby as I tried my original key in the lock. Fortunately, it worked OK. So much for trying to fob me off with the seized lock story!!! He apologised for trying that line, presumably required by “head office”.
My advice here is: always try a new cut key in the passenger door first, never the ignition, with the door open. If it doesn’t work after the second attempt, give up and get your money back. If at all possible, park as close to the key cutter as possible to try the key immediately.
As it happens I have a spare 2nd hand set of all 3 lock barrels and key to match, so I could have replaced the passenger door barrel anyway.
That reminds me…..top tip. Do it now! Open each front door, and remove the door card screw located under the lock – it is covered by a circular plastic plug. It is the only screw which is inaccessible when the door is closed and prevents the door card being readily removed from an un-openable front door ie if (when??) the lock fails, as is common. The one plus point for the front doors only, is that even if the electro-mechanical mechanism has failed, the front doors can be unlocked with the key blade. Not so the rear doors of course. The rear doors do not have that screw so their door cards can be removed from a closed door quite easily to access the lock. I have had to remove and replace the locks of un-openable rear doors 3 times now. And just to blow my own trumpet, I have perfected a method of unlocking a rear lock, from the inside, with the door card removed, using only a soldering iron and instrument screwdriver. I have an illustrated pdf if anyone wants it.
I am now off for a friday afternoon G&T, still with no spare key.
wheeler
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by wheeler »

On the C5 the SX9 key blade also has cuts on the side, were the side cuts done on the new key?
aspire_helen
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by aspire_helen »

I left out that detail, so here it is. When he cut the first attempt, I pointed out he had not cut the side slots I think you mean. He said he "understood" those were for clamping the key precisely for key cutting, and left them uncut. However, after the second attempt failure, I asked him to cut those side slots as well, which he did. It was only THEN that the key got stuck in the lock.
Now, having looked at the 2nd hand key I have, those slots are different to mine....so they must be specific to the lock. The annoying thing is that I chose the more mature technician....I had previously talked to two other younger operatives, one of whom looked at my key with bemusement! I thought the 30-something bloke would be more experienced. Doh!
wheeler
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by wheeler »

aspire_helen wrote:
29 Apr 2022, 18:23

Now, having looked at the 2nd hand key I have, those slots are different to mine....so they must be specific to the lock.
They certainly are, the cuts on the side are very similar to the main cuts, they have to be duplicated in the exact same way.
To be specific there are 62 different variations of the 'side' cut patterns.
The fact the lock was turning all the way around suggests the key is cut incorrectly, this is a security feature so that if the lock is operated/forced with anything but the correct key it just rotated & wont do anything. The strange thing is even if the code was cut wrong i wouldnt expect it to get stuck in the lock?
If you want I can try to decode the key for you from pictures & get Timpsons to cut it from code? Let me know & i can give you example pictures of what i would need.
aspire_helen
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by aspire_helen »

Wheeler
That sounds interesting. Indeed, I would be interested in your offer. I asked the Timpsons operative the specific question..."can the key be cut from a code?" rather than copying. He said no. I find it annoying that Timpsons have cornered the key cutting market but without having the expertise to back it up!
H
wheeler
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by wheeler »

I would need 2 clear pictures like this on a white background. Make sure to give the key blade a good clean. Would be interesting to see the key they cut also to see the difference.
Im surprised they dont have cut to code machines. Maybe this varies from branch to branch? A few years back i was speaking to one of the guys at a branch in Glasgow, he was showing me all the programming kit they had at the time, it was good stuff & the guy seemed very knowledgeable. Not sure if they did cut to code right enough as at the time i was only really interested in the programming side of things.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 2001 - Locked out due to lost key

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Please exchange any further pictures between yourselves of your actual keys via private message and not in the public forum, thanks.