308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

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Dannyboy
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:24

308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by Dannyboy »

Hi All, This problem started a couple of months ago as an intermittent resettable "Limp mode" problem and now is a hard fault. The fault codes I have had were:
P1062: VVL lift system fault.
P1067: VVL lift system motor/ short circuit/ open circuit.
P1015: VVL system fault.
P010D: VVL lift motor control open circuit
P1014: VVL position sensor track 2 signal coherence.
P1017: VVL position sensor track 1 signal coherence.
P1030: VVL system programming fault coherence.
I have done a lot of work on this problem to no avail and the problem is still intermittent but after a few drives ( 10 miles ) it becomes a hard fault . The fault codes I have now are the P1067, P1015 and P1030. I have tried to avoid throwing parts at it . I have a spare ECU from previous issues and both ECU`s show the same faults when fitted so:
1) I ruled out the ECU.
2) The VVL motor will spin either direction, moving the VVL shaft easily when you apply 12V to the input wires alternately. I ruled that out .
3) The connector to the VVL sensor had evidence of corrosion so that connection was renewed.
4) I have con checked the wiring from the VVL sensor to the ECU , no issues.
5) I replaced the VVL sensor ( secondhand from e-bay ) No difference.
6) I replaced the engine bay fuse box which I believe contains the control relay . ( You can see
small relays inside it ) No difference.
Each time I do something the car drives fine a couple of times and then breaks down again. Sometimes the fault codes clear , sometimes not. The EML doesn`t always come on when the fault reoccurs. The only part I have not replaced ( I think ) in the system is the VVL motor as it appeared to test o.k. I am now considering replacing that. Getting frustrated at this stage but at least its a hard fault but that tends to clear when i do something and then reappears after a couple of test drives. Any advice from the experts would be appreciated.
Regards.........Dannyboy
gwest
(Donor 2020)
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Joined: 27 Apr 2020, 08:07
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Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by gwest »

It is commendable Dannyboy that you are treading a path that few have trod! When I was dismantling my VTi 1.6 cylinder head to have a dropped valve seat replaced I left the eccentric shaft in place, because of a warning I had read on the now defunct newtis site that read: "Important! The screws of the bearing bracket must not be opened. Releasing the bearing bracket will result in damage to the cylinder head." To free the sensor end of the eccentic shaft required the removal of this assembly. I have no idea what the warning is about.

I do note on https://www.mechanic.com.au/news/unders ... nic-system that they include some codes similar to yours and show an oscilloscope snapshot of what a functioning eccentric camshaft does when it is performing a limit relearn procedure. They maintain the line that this procedure must be done when performing any work on the Valvetronic system. In my case the engine ECU, after a period of stumbling around, sorted itself out.
I also note that DiagnoseDan ( used a heat gun on the actuator motor to reveal an intermittent fault in the motor and tested the resistance between the wires and the body of the motor.
Dannyboy
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:24

Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by Dannyboy »

Ah...Gwest, glad to hear from you. When I was entering this post I was about to put at the end.." Gwest are you out there ?" Great to bounce off your ideas / comments in the past and as usual this recent post is helpful and encouraging.
I don`t particularly want to hand over the car to an auto electrician and his bill and new parts would make it an expensive car....and I`m always up for a technical challenge. I`m not ready to give up yet. I was using this car as a daily driver until it sat down. I knew it wouldn`t be a quick fix so I bought another ( reliable ) car in the meantime. So no rush with the fix. Its always dodgy troubleshooting with secondhand parts with an unconfirmed history and leaves lots of room for doubt.
I`ll get a replacement VVL motor and try it out. At least the fault codes won`t reset at present, even though the car may drive perfectly intermittently...it always does when I replace / check something , although that seems to be permanent issue at present. If the codes clear on replacement then I might be getting somewhere. Fingers crossed. There is not a lot of info out there about troubleshooting this problem. I`m off now to trawl through e-bay to get a motor. Hope your 1.6 Vti is going well. Talk soon and keep you posted.
Regards and a Happy Xmas to you and yours..........Dannyboy.
gwest
(Donor 2020)
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Joined: 27 Apr 2020, 08:07
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Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by gwest »

It's just that you have such interesting problems Dannyboy it's hard to resist making suggestions! It will be interesting to see how it works out. I had quite a lot of mental stimulation trying to reassemble the VVL system on my VTi so I have quite a bit of respect for the engineering.
Thank you for the Xmas wishes - I have survived so far but probably only because my wife made me give away two fruit cakes! The engine on my 207 CC is working nicely but the AL4 auto is thumping from 1st to 2nd on occasions. I am on my third oil change over 2500 km but it does not appear to have improved things and like your problem, doesn't happen all the time. It doesn't tend to happen when the engine (and transmission) are cold so I'm wondering if it is temperature related? My generic scanner can record much transmission data but I need to learn what functions to monitor. It has primitive graphic display options which may not help, but like you, I am reluctant to throw parts at it. It should keep me entertained for a while.
Regards ..... Grant
Dannyboy
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:24

Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by Dannyboy »

Hi Grant, delighted to hear your 207 is motoring along. I have heard good reports in the past re Auto box oil additives smoothing out their operation.
Ever since I helped out my brother in law with his imported Masda 626 Coupe ( he emigrated back from the US to Ireland and brought the car ) He asked me about servicing it for him. I told him to bring back a service kit with it..........all the filters etc were made in Israel !. I decided the auto box fluid looked bad....burnt brown and changed it and lost 3 gears, It cost him 700 euro to get it fixed ( 20 yrs ago ? ) very embarassing, I offered to pay half, he refused.....he has retrieved the value from me since in other ways. the autobox repair man said he suspected the liquid gasket I used on the gasket got into the valve block. I have since got an auto box clutch E replaced ( was dropping out of gear ) by a specialist along with the fluid change ( on my wifes BMW 530 diesel 2007 167K miles ) and it changes gear much more smoothly. Anyway...back to the problem in hand......

: The VVL Motor ( new 120 euro ) arrived 5/1/22, fitted it on the 6th. Wound the motor out full after fitting , car ran really badly and you could smell fuel. Wound it fully in and car started and ran normally. I have an un-resettable ABS/ESP fault….more about that later. “Permanent” Fault code P1067 “Variable valve lift relay control open circuit” and “Permanent “ fault code P1015 “Variable valve lift system fault limp home position not reached” won`t reset. Car now drives fine. Did the 10 mile local circuit a few times no hiccups apart from the engine management light came on a couple of times with no message or extra fault code. I got the EML light with an “anti pollution” message after start when the VVL motor was wound full out ( smell of fuel ) . It resets. Decided to try a few runs with its original ECU…that runs fine also but has more fault codes along with the P1067 + P1015 which are:
P1030: “Variable valve lift relay control open circuit”
P1078: “Variable valve lift motor control modelled VVT engine temperature too high.
I think my ECU programming man can remove these codes and prevent the EML light coming on. He has said to me before if the car runs fine and passes emissions tests he has no issue sorting out the problem codes bringing the EML on......worth considering , cost about 80 euro after postage.
The EML light hasn`t come on yet with the original ECU on the 10 mile circuit run……will try it a few times.

The ABS/ESP fault ,C1381: “ Recirculation pump supply fault electrical fault” permanent fault, won`t reset. This has happened a few times when the battery was disconnected for a period of time. Reset with difficulty before but not this time. All info I have seen says bleeding after refitting is a dealer job, secondhand ones are 150 euro, new ones are 300 Euro ? Hitting the body before sorted it, suspect the motor brushes are dodgy. Will have to dig deeper before replacing it.
The front bumper has to come off for access.....will try to coax it into life before spending more money.............the cheap car challenge point has long passed.
If I can get it to run reliably the car market here has secondhand car prices rising........just might get my money back but don`t want to dump a dog onto somebody.....Its a really nice car to drive, suspension is superb, soaks up the bumps, brakes good, cabin a comfortable place to be but that 1.4VTI engine is a bit underpowered for this size car. ...............Let you know how I got on.... will trawl the forums for ABS fixes............regards...Dannyboy.
gwest
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 78
Joined: 27 Apr 2020, 08:07
x 7

Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by gwest »

Dannyboy, your brother in law might not have forgotten, but at least you didn't destroy your sister's marriage! Transmissions are obviously not as forgiving as engines- I found lengths of silicone wound up in the oil pump intake filter on mine when I pulled the sump off. The one downside of silicone gaskets.
I think there is a good chance your engine fault codes will clear if the engine is running nicely. I can't remember how I went about clearing codes on mine but a lot just disappeared of their own accord.
And with your ABS given that the problem is almost certainly electrical, the electronic module can be easily separated from the hydraulic block. So no need to touch the brake lines. There is a thread on this forum: "Peugeot 207 ABS pump" in which this is discussed. You either get your ABS ECU module repaired or buy one from a car with the same setup- no ESP vs ESP and same wheel size. In my experience it didn't matter whether the donor car was manual or automatic, and the part numbers did not have to match. When I next take the front off my 207, I will reinstall my repaired ABS ECU just to confirm it was fixed. It was done by a bloke who repairs ABS modules for other makes but who took it on as he had heard so much about the problems with PSA units. He did not have the test gear that some other crowds deemed necessary in order to diagnose the fault, so I think it must have been a pretty obvious problem. You can see where he has re-sealed the lid- I should have carefully cut it open myself before I sent it off just to have a look. A friend of mine with a malfunctioning Bosch ABS unit did this and found broken connections for several very fine wires. It required an expert to silver solder them.
Your admission of guilt in robbing your brother in law of half his gears has me thinking that maybe I should start a new thread, as I have been guilty of numerous Crimes against Cars. And making a full confession might provide at least some absolution!
Dannyboy
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:24

Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by Dannyboy »

Hi Gwest ( and other peugeot experts ) . Thats good news on the ABS unit front.........however bad news on the other issue. True to form everytime I do something positive to fix the VVL issue it returns. On test drive 5, started car and it didn`t sound right. It had driven fine when parked from test drive 4. Drove away ...it was "pinging" ....and then went into limp mode. Drove back home....I had all the 4 VVL related fault codes mentioned before and an EML with "anti pollution" fault message. Swapped over the other ECU.....no difference. Its a hard fault again , no reset. Where to now ? Back to the start I think ? I`m wondering now do I have a mechanical problem with the VVL system ? I think I`ll look more carefully at the 4 codes and see is there a common link. Any advice appreciated. .............regards.....Dannyboy.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here are the descriptors for those remaining fault codes in case it helps you:

Fault Code: P1030
Description of Fault: Fault in the programming of the variable valve lift system: Coherence. Detection of a shift between the setting for the variable valve lift and the position reading performed by the variable valve lift position sensor (Difference greater than 10°).
Conditions of activation of the diagnostics - The following conditions have to be met:
-
  • Diagnostics carried out during the programming of the variable valve lift stops (Valvetronic)
  • - Engine management ECU in main triggering phase
Conditions for Fault to clear: The angular deviation of the value for the variable valve lift system is less than 10° for 0,04 s (In the next initialisation cycle).
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: Change to butterfly mode.
Symptoms: Starting difficult, Unstable idling, Stalling after starting, Stalling at idle, Lack of power, Flat spot on acceleration, Excessive fuel consumption.
Suspect Areas: Variable valve lift motor (Valvetronic), Mechanical system of the variable valve lift (valvetronic).

Fault Code: P1015
Description of Fault: Fault in the variable valve lift system: Limp Home position not reached. Reference for the valve lift maximum position not reached in the change to butterfly mode.
Conditions of activation of the diagnostics:

The following conditions have to be met:
  • - Engine management ECU in main triggering phase
  • - Engine running
  • - Fault on the variable valve lift system
  • - Check that there are no fault codes : P1004 - P1005 - P1006 - P1007 - P1011 - P1012 - P1013 - P1014 - P1017 - P1019 - P1020 - P101A - P1023 - P1024 - P1025
At least one of the following conditions must be fulfilled:
  • - Detection of a difference between the mass of air calculated and that measured
  • - Difference between the inlet pressure at full load and the pressure estimated in relation to the angle of the motorised butterfly
  • - The actual rate of air entering the engine is lower than the rate of air calculated
Conditions for Fault to clear: As soon as the position of the eccentric of the variable valve lift system is in conformity (Minimum open position of the motorised throttle housing).
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: Change to butterfly mode.
Symptoms: Starting difficult, Stalling after starting, Stalling at idle, Cutting out under load, Unstable idling, Lack of power, Flat spot on acceleration, Emissions outside the norms, Excessive fuel consumption.
Suspect Areas: Variable valve lift motor(Valvetronic), Intermediate camshaft, Mechanical system of the variable valve lift (valvetronic).

Fault Code: P1067
Description of Fault: Variable valve lift relay control fault: Open circuit.

Possibility 1
Difference in voltage between the engine ECU main relay and that for the variable valve lift system relay (More than 2,5 V for 200 ms)
Possibility 2
Relay of the variable valve lift system: Open circuit
Possibility 3
Current consumed by the motor of the variable valve lift system: greater than 54 A

Conditions of activation of the diagnostics
The following conditions have to be met:
  • - Engine management ECU in main triggering phase
  • - Except in the starting phase
  • - Not in the phase of initialisation of the stops for the variable valve lift system
  • - Voltage supplying the variable valve lift system relay (Above 9 V)
Conditions for Fault to clear: Possibility 1
Difference in voltage between the engine ECU main relay and that for the variable valve lift system relay (Less than 2,5 v)
Possibility 2
Relay of the variable valve lift system: Open circuit
Possibility 3
Current consumed by the motor of the variable valve lift system: Lower than 20 A for 30 seconds
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: Change to butterfly mode.
Symptoms: Starting impossible, Starting difficult, Unstable idling, Stalling after starting, Stalling at idle, Cutting out under load, Lack of power, Emissions outside the norms, Excessive fuel consumption.
Suspect Areas: Relay of the variable valve lift system, Motor of the variable valve lift system,
Mechanical system of the variable valve lift, Engine ECU
gwest
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 78
Joined: 27 Apr 2020, 08:07
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Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by gwest »

Dannyboy, it would be good to inspect the position of the eccentric cam teeth when the engine is off. Mine was about half-way (see photo below) and I think this is what you want when you have reinstalled the eccentric shaft actuator. Pelican Parts have info on this for the R56 MINI. From memory there are about 6 turns in total on the Allen key adjuster? I note that LM Auto Repairs have a video on a 1.4 VTi Peugeot 308 with valve lift system faults. He shows a good way of powering up the motor from the multi-plug connectors.
This is my own photograph- copyright Grant West
This is my own photograph- copyright Grant West
Dannyboy
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:24

Re: 308 1.4 Vti variable valve lift issues.

Post by Dannyboy »

Hi Givemeabreak and G west, much appreciate your assistance. I had a look at givemeabreak`s info on the fault codes , great info there, and the common items are VVL motor and the mechanical system of the VVL. I did LM auto`s test on the VVL motor ( the old one ) previously and it motored over and back freely and without issues so I eliminated it early on from the problem . When I ran out of ideas I suspected the motor may stop at a bad part and not restart so I bought a new VVL motor......didn`t fix it . The mechanical part of the VVL system seems to move freely. I had no info on where to position the motor when fitting so I tried it Full out ( anticlockwise when viewed from the drivers seat ) ..car would not start and smell of fuel. . Wound the motor fully in ( clockwise from the drivers seat ) Car started straight away, revved freely, two of the codes would not clear P1067 and P1062, both showing permanent. EML was off. The intermittent codes P1030, P1015, P1030 and P1078 ( intermittent ) cleared. Car drove fine, tried it on 4 separate 10 mile drives on different days. EML came on once or twice on start up but cleared with the reset tool . Thought I had it licked....didn`t worry if those permanent codes stayed there if the car drove fine and the EML stayed off. Drive 5 .....started up, didn`t sound right , wouldn`t rev freely, EML on and limp home mode ......no reset. All 5 fault codes present. P1067 and 62 permanent, 30, 15 and 78 temporary. Tried my other ECU.....same situation. Its a hard fault again.

Doing the research for my next move , i`m too far into this to give up and scrap it . Just need to find the culprit !!.
Its like as if the VVL system gets stuck outside its controlling range. The permanent codes are seeing something wrong. The permanent codes are P1062 "VVL system fault, diff between the motor control and the position of the system " and P1067 "VVL relay control open circuit" . I`ve replaced the motor ( new ) and the shaft position sensor ( secondhand , no moving parts ) for code P1062 and the Engine bay Fuse box ( VVL power relay contained within ) for P1067...they never reset, but the car could run fine with these permanent codes there , albeit the snag would return after a few drives. I bet if I wind the motor back in to the earlier running position the car will start and run. I think gwests suggestion of setting it up in mid range is worth trying. I`ll have a look at that R56 video.
A niggling thought in my head, thinking outside the box, is that, this system uses the VVL system as the throttle, ....the ECU, the VVL shaft position sensor and the VVL motor put it in the position needed . The sensor tells the ECU the shaft is where it asked it to be but how does it know that its achieved the demanded power ? ? . If the throttle pedal tells the ECU I want x power, how does the ECU know it has achieved that ? Is there an input from the manifold absolute pressure sensor ?.............could that be dodgy ? I think I might try replacing that. Any views appreciated. I`ll let you know how I got on.........rgds....Dannyboy.