UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

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seoras
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UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by seoras »

Been googling this for a few days now and reading horror stories of new AdBlue tank replacement on my car model (Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 2014 2.0 HDi) costing >£1k
Today I got a WiFi OBD2 dongle in the post and was able to check engine diagnostics which return no errors.
The only fault I can find anywhere (I'm using "Car Scanner Pro" App on my iPhone to talk to OBD2 dongle, is there a better one?) is in the "Noncontinuous Monitors" menu which listed all passed except "NOx Catalyst Monitor Bank 1 - MID$98" which is a FAILED due to a reading of 32.766 and the limits being Min 1 and Max 30.

It's been ages since I last topped up the AdBlue so I'm certain the tank ran dry and it didn't just fail.
Normally I buy 10L containers of the stuff and fill it at home.
This time I stopped by a service station which has a pump dispenser for AdBlue like you get for fuel.
Topped it up and the orange UREA light remained on. I've done a few 100 miles since then and it just won't reset.

I'd take it to a dealer but I'm a little distrusting of my dealer due to a previous experience with them but also because I live rurally and it's a whole day to take it to town and hang around for a fix.

Is there anyway I can reset the engine on the UREA warning and count down using an app or software and my new OBD2 (WiFi) dongle?
Thanks!

Dormouse
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by Dormouse »

A curiousity question. Does your handbook have any information on AdBlue filling and maintaining? I now handbooks are notoriously long drawn out and convoluted but if there was a simple reset option it should mention it somewhere. Mines has 200 pages and I have had to read it properly twice to learn all the things I should have known as an owner. Just a thought. cheers

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Make sure you haven't used a commercial vehicle Adblue dispenser - they can damage the system. It should also meet ISO 22241 standards. If the tank has been allowed to run dry, there is a wait of at least 5 minutes before opening any doors, putting the key in the ignition or putting the keyless entry fob anywhere near the car. The vehicle needs to go to 'sleep' which it won't do if it detects the fob on keyless entry systems.

If you've done all that, and the UREA warning light is on then you have something else going on and you will have to bite the bullet and likely get the dealer to look at it. It could well be a failing NOx sensor or other component. You can't reset anything with one of these OBD II readers.

seoras
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by seoras »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
04 May 2021, 10:51
If the tank has been allowed to run dry, there is a wait of at least 5 minutes before opening any doors, putting the key in the ignition or putting the keyless entry fob anywhere near the car. The vehicle needs to go to 'sleep' which it won't do if it detects the fob on keyless entry systems.
That's my concern. Since I pulled up to a pump, filled and drove away then I haven't let it "sleep".
It pisses me off that no where in the manual for the car does it even tell you were the tank cap is let alone what to put in it and to leave it for 5 minutes and do any of the things you've mentioned.

I've read that there's some sort of software reset that can be performed to sync up all the sensors after a "botched" re-fill of AdBlue.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Actually everything I have said is all in the manual.

If you don't have access to one, let me have your VIN and I'll provide you with a link to a PDF of the manual.

There's no reset you can do. Any resetting of the system can only be done with a proper dealer level diagnostic tool - depending on what the fault is of course. If you have a fault code for a NOx sensor, then that will need investigating / replacing before you look at anything else.

The NOx sensor may be working perfectly well in detecting the higher emissions - which would mean either the Adblue system is not doing its job - i.e. injector issue or pump issue for example, so the higher rates of NOx are being detected. So it does need further investigation I'm afraid to ascertain the issue and you really need a dealer level tool to be able to talk to all the systems.

seoras
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by seoras »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
04 May 2021, 11:54
Actually everything I have said is all in the manual.

If you don't have access to one, let me have your VIN and I'll provide you with a link to a PDF of the manual.

There's no reset you can do. Any resetting of the system can only be done with a proper dealer level diagnostic tool - depending on what the fault is of course. If you have a fault code for a NOx sensor, then that will need investigating / replacing before you look at anything else.

The NOx sensor may be working perfectly well in detecting the higher emissions - which would mean either the Adblue system is not doing its job - i.e. injector issue or pump issue for example, so the higher rates of NOx are being detected. So it does need further investigation I'm afraid to ascertain the issue and you really need a dealer level tool to be able to talk to all the systems.
I've got both original hard copy and the PDF copy of my manual which I searched using keyword searches, like "adblue", "urea", "particle". Nothing of what you said is in the manual for my car.
In fact in the section which details each light (icon) on the dash it omits any mention of the orange "UREA" light which I find very odd.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Here:
Urea A.PNG
Urea B.PNG
This particular manual is 428 pages, so not sure if you have the full manual.

seoras
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by seoras »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
04 May 2021, 23:16
Here:

Image

Image

This particular manual is 428 pages, so not sure if you have the full manual.
Thanks for that. My manual has 420 pages.
Front two pages look like this.

I think I can use this as leverage when I take it to the dealer if I can point out that my manual excludes the necessary information on how to correctly top up with AdBlue.
So far it has been sheer luck that I didn't break it until now since I always did it at home, cold, and didn't drive it immediately afterwards.
I might be slightly paranoid but I wouldn't put it past them, from previous experiences, to try and do expensive unnecessary work when all is needed is a reset (as I've been told is all that is needed by a few people so far).
Your information makes me think all I have done is failed to follow instructions I had not been given but I probably should have.

Which page did you find that on? I'm wondering now if it is in my hard copy but I'm 99% certain it isn't because, as I said, there's no mention of the UREA warning icon in the pages detailing these icon warnings.

I'm in New Zealand but the car is effectively a British import being RHD. Perhaps being outside of the EU Citroen feels they can get away with forcing owners to pay dealers to top up AdBlue.
Screen Shot 2021-05-05 at 2.30.40 PM.png

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

You need to bear in mind that they release multiple manuals over the production dates of the vehicle to reflect changes to specifications.

If you can pop your VIN up for me I can check the manual according to your build date and then provide you with a link to it.

Most of the manuals have a print or version date on the second to last page of the manual.

The first manual for this model was printed in Marc 2013. In this first manual for early models there is no mention of Urea or Adblue and this one has 420 pages.

So you may have a manual that is too early for the build date, but won’t know this until I check the VIN.

Also, worth bearing in mind that SCR technology was only introduced at Frankfurt in 2013 by PSA, and the Later C4 Picasso build date was on the cusp of the change....

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Paul-R
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by Paul-R »

I don't understand why Adblue dispensed from an HGV dispenser should be forbidden. Providing it meets the ISO 2224 standard (which dictates what?) then the only problem I can see is the speed of delivery and consequent risk of overfilling and spillage.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes - exactly why - it is the speed of delivery that is the issue - it can damage the internals - seeing that the pump heating, ECU and other electronic components are inside the tank on PSA consumer vehicles . It is not designed for the speed of delivery of commercial pumps that may not have the components inside the HGV tanks.

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Paul-R
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by Paul-R »

Then why don't they include that information? I have a profound distrust of instructions that state "Thou Shallt Not" without backing it up with a reason. I class it with "The gearbox is filled for life with oil and does not need replacing".

With that knowledge you could make a reasoned decision to use the dispenser (would the nozzle even fit?) without pulling the trigger to maximum or even refilling an empty Adblue container.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Well if you want to pay out over a grand for a new Adblue tank, go ahead, your choice. It's common sense to me:- Unless you are using an Adblue pump at a service station explicitly designed for passenger cars.

1) They do include that information - see the manual (although back on topic, the OP may have the incorrect early manual) - this is to be determined an am awaiting additional info.
2) Passenger vehicles have much smaller tank capacities (circa 17 litres) and only require filling about every 5600 miles depending on driving (may be slightly larger on larger passenger vehicles).
3) Some large HGVs can use 5,445 litres of Adblue a year - hence they need faster dispensers

At this stage we do not know if the OP used an Adblue dispenser designed for HGVs or not when he used a pump. But without further diagnosis we cannot ascertain whether the pump is faulty / damaged or the NOx sensor is faulty. But separate to these 2 issues, the OP may not have had the correct manual for the vehicle production year with the warnings in that I posted from the 2014 manual.

This is where we are at.

Steve Walsh
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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by Steve Walsh »

Curious to know if it is the speed of a HGV Adblue pump that could do damage, I fill my truck once or twice a week at various pumps and they are slow, I can, and have done, refilled from a container much faster.

Steve

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Re: UREA count down not resetting after AdBlue top up

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Well, my company van uses AdBlue, and is the new Vauxhall Combo. Because I am not aware of any AdBlue pumps in my area I have only used AdBlue from containers, but I am aware of colleagues who have used the pumps. I have passed this link onto a manager.