Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

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max4ever20
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Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by max4ever20 »

Hello,

I have 2011 Citroen C5 2011 (1,6 HDI VTR+ - 110BHP) ..
Last week, after driving for 20-30 minutes I hit a small speed bump (20-30 kmh) and the car give me engine fault and stop sign appeared, I can not change the gears and the car will start the engine randomly ( it took many attempts to start the engine, most of the time it will not even start the engine) .. now when the car starts, I can see engine fault repair needed and then lots of other messages like gearbox fault, abs fault, airbag fault etc..

after failed attempts to diagnosis the issue, I sent the car to Citroen dealer to inspect the car.. they were not able to complete the diagnostics initially due to communication error, however they mentioned after couple of hours that the electric power steering pump was faulty and after disconnecting it they were able to complete the diagnostics and it seems communication to engine/gearbox is going through this one! they suggested replacing this electric power steering pump for +1200 Euros ! ..
I am not even sure if that make sense or if that is really the root cause, I didnt have any steering issues before with the car and not sure why steering issue will stop the car from starting the engine or switching gears!
Any advice is much appreciated

Thanks,

Peter.N.
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by Peter.N. »

Is the starter turning the engine over or is it dead? is the gearbox manual or auto?

Peter

max4ever20
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by max4ever20 »

Hi Peter,

It is automatic gearbox, just switching on the ignition will show the stop lights and engine fault... after removing the key and trying multiple times, I can get the engine to start (pretty random) but wont be able to change the gears (showing - instead of N)

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I don't think you have an automatic gearbox on this engine - you probably have the piloted manual system (manual gearbox and clutch with hydraulic actuators). These are not without their problems and can be expensive to resolve and fix. Pop up your VIN and I'll confirm exactly what you have.

max4ever20
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by max4ever20 »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
18 Mar 2021, 13:44
I don't think you have an automatic gearbox on this engine - you probably have the piloted manual system (manual gearbox and clutch with hydraulic actuators). These are not without their problems and can be expensive to resolve and fix. Pop up your VIN and I'll confirm exactly what you have.

yes, it is this weird semi automatic gearbox .. the VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Edit: The garage mentioned the correct part number to replace this is 4008E5, I was searching online on Ebay for used parts and it seems all the stickers in those parts start with numbers like 968* .. I am not sure which one actually will fit my car
Last edited by max4ever20 on 18 Mar 2021, 16:38, edited 1 time in total.

Peter.N.
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by Peter.N. »

I can't help you I'm afraid, only familiar with manual but I'm sure someone will.

Peter

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Doo
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by Doo »

max4ever20 wrote:
18 Mar 2021, 07:12
Hello,

I have 2011 Citroen C5 2011 (1,6 HDI VTR+ - 110BHP) ..
Last week, after driving for 20-30 minutes I hit a small speed bump (20-30 kmh) and the car give me engine fault and stop sign appeared, I can not change the gears and the car will start the engine randomly ( it took many attempts to start the engine, most of the time it will not even start the engine) .. now when the car starts, I can see engine fault repair needed and then lots of other messages like gearbox fault, abs fault, airbag fault etc..

after failed attempts to diagnosis the issue, I sent the car to Citroen dealer to inspect the car.. they were not able to complete the diagnostics initially due to communication error, however they mentioned after couple of hours that the electric power steering pump was faulty and after disconnecting it they were able to complete the diagnostics and it seems communication to engine/gearbox is going through this one! they suggested replacing this electric power steering pump for +1200 Euros ! ..
I am not even sure if that make sense or if that is really the root cause, I didnt have any steering issues before with the car and not sure why steering issue will stop the car from starting the engine or switching gears!
Any advice is much appreciated

Thanks,
Pound (or Euro) to a penny an earth wire has come loose or perhaps a +

I take it they (you) checked the battery for correct connection? All these unusual problems point to a bad battery or a poor electrical connection. And since you clobbered a speed bump, I'd suggest somethings been jolted loose.

Easy to check the battery terminals. If they check out ok, next job is to get jump leads. Take the black one, clip it to the NEGATIVE - terminal then find a clean metal bracket on the engine and clip the other end on to it. Then try the electrics. It's very Heath Robinson, but it's always worked for me. I've discovered many earth issues over the years with this method.

Another possibility is where the battery fastens to the main under bonnet fuse box. My wife's car had a bunch of tree debris inside her fuse box (not a scooby how it actually found it's way in :roll: This led to grotty connections with almost all fuses. I removed it, cleaned it up with a mouse tail & flat file (actually I found a cardboard nail file fitted the fuse slots perfectly) and it hasn't given a moments bother since.

Something caused the issue when you hit the bump, so check the obvious first. Also, I take it you inspected under the car for damaged or torn wires/connectors/sensors??

max4ever20
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by max4ever20 »

Doo wrote:
18 Mar 2021, 16:30
max4ever20 wrote:
18 Mar 2021, 07:12
Hello,

I have 2011 Citroen C5 2011 (1,6 HDI VTR+ - 110BHP) ..
Last week, after driving for 20-30 minutes I hit a small speed bump (20-30 kmh) and the car give me engine fault and stop sign appeared, I can not change the gears and the car will start the engine randomly ( it took many attempts to start the engine, most of the time it will not even start the engine) .. now when the car starts, I can see engine fault repair needed and then lots of other messages like gearbox fault, abs fault, airbag fault etc..

after failed attempts to diagnosis the issue, I sent the car to Citroen dealer to inspect the car.. they were not able to complete the diagnostics initially due to communication error, however they mentioned after couple of hours that the electric power steering pump was faulty and after disconnecting it they were able to complete the diagnostics and it seems communication to engine/gearbox is going through this one! they suggested replacing this electric power steering pump for +1200 Euros ! ..
I am not even sure if that make sense or if that is really the root cause, I didnt have any steering issues before with the car and not sure why steering issue will stop the car from starting the engine or switching gears!
Any advice is much appreciated

Thanks,
Pound (or Euro) to a penny an earth wire has come loose or perhaps a +

I take it they (you) checked the battery for correct connection? All these unusual problems point to a bad battery or a poor electrical connection. And since you clobbered a speed bump, I'd suggest somethings been jolted loose.

Easy to check the battery terminals. If they check out ok, next job is to get jump leads. Take the black one, clip it to the NEGATIVE - terminal then find a clean metal bracket on the engine and clip the other end on to it. Then try the electrics. It's very Heath Robinson, but it's always worked for me. I've discovered many earth issues over the years with this method.

Another possibility is where the battery fastens to the main under bonnet fuse box. My wife's car had a bunch of tree debris inside her fuse box (not a scooby how it actually found it's way in :roll: This led to grotty connections with almost all fuses. I removed it, cleaned it up with a mouse tail & flat file (actually I found a cardboard nail file fitted the fuse slots perfectly) and it hasn't given a moments bother since.

Something caused the issue when you hit the bump, so check the obvious first. Also, I take it you inspected under the car for damaged or torn wires/connectors/sensors??
I have very limited mechanic experience but what I have done so far is the following
1- Removed and reconnected the battery connections
2- Checked and cleaned the fuse box next to the battery
3- Reset the BSI following producer I found online
4- Tried to jump start to eliminate battery issues (I started getting going in power saving mode messages after few hours trying to start the car..)
5- Finally tried get a local mechanic to look into this issue but he was not able to get the diagnostic completed (probably because of this communication fault)

Initially I though it could be something disconnected as I hit the speed pump, but as I have limited options as the car not starting I decided to tow it to Citroen dealer :(

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Doo
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by Doo »

I am still of the opinion something was jarred loose or broken in the impact. It's the only thing that makes any sense.

Did you try the jump lead idea I suggested to rule out broken/damaged earth leads?

Taking it back to basics, you slam into a bump, the car gets jarred, then the electrics play up. So reason dictates it was the impact that caused the problem.

If you are certain the things you checked are absolutely 100%, you have to start checking the less obvious things. Is the alternator solid and securely fastened? Is it putting out at least 14.8v??

Are the battery leads in good order? I have a suspicion one or more may be compromised. I had a Talbot Horizon 1.3 many years ago. I also hit a bump and the battery started discharging, but it took a few miles driving to notice. Took me a while, but I eventually discovered the main + lead from the battery to the starter & alternator had broken up inside the plastic sheath. I only discovered it by wiggling the wires and the lights all of a sudden would brighten up then dim down. I had a spare wire so swapped it and away she went.

You always have to check the loom systematically. And as you are getting power saving mode, it tells me you are lacking volts....

max4ever20
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Joined: 18 Mar 2021, 07:00

Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by max4ever20 »

Yeah, I agree .. I think it should be something broken because of the speed bump but since I am running out of options I sent it to the Citroen dealer ..

Now I asked the dealer to remove the faulty electric steering pump so I can buy a used replacement ( as I am not sure it is the main issue to be honest).. I found the below 2 links with the same MPN (96731 737 80) on Ebay below

1- https://www.ebay.ie/itm/9673173780-powe ... 1#shpCntId
2- https://www.ebay.ie/itm/9673173780-powe ... fresh=true

The tag on both parts looks the same but one has a date (03.01.11) and the other one has a code (16406F14) .. are those the same part? my part had a date (26.09.10) not that code..

another question, should I be able to start the engine /change the gears while this part is removed ? (just for testing)

Thanks,

max4ever20
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by max4ever20 »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
18 Mar 2021, 13:44
I don't think you have an automatic gearbox on this engine - you probably have the piloted manual system (manual gearbox and clutch with hydraulic actuators). These are not without their problems and can be expensive to resolve and fix. Pop up your VIN and I'll confirm exactly what you have.
Hi Marc,

were you able to check the VIN? can this be used to check which of the spare parts I found on Ebay will fit in my car? Thanks!

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Sorry about that, I must of missed your reply.

As per your VIN you do have the STT 6-Speed Piloted Manual Gearbox, so not an automatic with torque converter.

As for your other query regarding the power steering pump - you have steel sprung suspension, so no issues on that front and as long as the pump is disconnected it won't be pumping anything through the system.

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Doo
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by Doo »

Hey Marc, I wonder if you could perhaps concur that if the system isn't receiving enough power (V+) that it would affect the PAS as it's electric?

You may recall the Saxo and the Peugeot equivalent where the whole load was running through the ignition which overloaded the contact points. The plug on the end of the barrel would start deforming due to the heat built up when the PAS, heated rear window, blower heater, etc was running which often resulted in a dead engine or poor electrics.

This sounds very similar, but was caused by a massive bump which will certainly have created a high resistance connection somewhere along the line. I sincerely hope the dealership are successful in tracing the fault. I keep thinking of a broken wire inside the plastic sheath!!

I hope the dealer doesn't just throw parts at it....

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Citroen C5 2011 - 1.6 HDI Won't start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The system fitted on this vehicle uses and electro pump with hydraulic fluid, unlike the pure electric non-fluid type. But yes, these systems are powered directly from the battery and will run off that. I recall a while ago on mine that unknown to me at the time my alternator belt had torn off (as a result of a nick created by the Citroen mechanics caused when replacing the A/C compressor a while before) whilst I was out and it was only towards the last mile of an 18 mile return journey that I noticed the steering getting heavier when I came to park up. The belt had clean torn away across the nick.

So the power steering had been running totally off the battery along with everything else and as the battery became discharged, the steering became less effective at lower speeds, where most of the assistance is provided.