Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

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Rhothgar
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Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by Rhothgar »

Followed all the advice in this very useful thread.

viewtopic.php?t=37678

I've been meaning to remedy the S2 rev counter since October. How times flies by! Turns out I was looking at the wrong thread ie the one for the S1.

Basically, I have the wavering speedo issue and the rev counter reacts like this:-

Engine off - it rests against its stop.
Igntiion on - it rises to about 1000-1200rpm
Engine idling - 2000rpm

I've cleaned the pads on the PCB and the slightly bent the spring to assist with improving contact.

Should the stepper motors be fixed fairly firmly as they are wobbling pretty badly and I notice there are some springs on the perspex side of them as well as on the PCB side.

I have used IPA and the pads were slightly dirty. Surprisingly so I guess.

Either way, it didn't rectify my issue.

So part of me thinks should I carefully take the board out of the cowl and remove the speedo needle, switch car to ignition on and set it at 0rpm or even with engine idling put it back on at 800rpm as I know it idles at 803rpm?

Our dearest CitroJim talks about the voltage in the thread above and checking it with the ignition on. I don't feel confident enough to do that.

Any other areas I could look at?

I've checked the solder joints to the connectors with a 10x jewellers loupe and they all appear in good condition with no dry joints.

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by Rhothgar »

Righto! I've actually been out and done it. The needle really didn't want to come off. I've ended up scratching the face slightly...

But...

I've set it at 800 rpm with the engine running. Will see how it behaves on a run.

Might even take it for an early MOT tomorrow to find out what might need doing before I spend money on getting a new indicator lenses. Just so cautious about pumping any more money into the car at the moment.

If it looks to have a few years left in it, I might treat it to new spheres where needed, a turbocharger and some bodywork dent removal be nice to get it looking back something like.

Thanks for hearing me out on my Citroen ramblings guys. Always very much appreciated.

I just hope this is the last of it on this topic.

Anyone else with the problem in future on a Xantia Mark 2, X2 or S2. Use the thread linked in the post above, do the cleaning work using isopropyl alcohol, check all bulbs under magnification and if the element is intact but the glass is blackened, it's worth swapping those out.

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by CitroJim »

Roger, I have a couple of S2 instrument packs here, neither for an HDi I think but if of any use for spares, let me know...

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by Rhothgar »

CitroJim wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 05:35
Roger, I have a couple of S2 instrument packs here, neither for an HDi I think but if of any use for spares, let me know...
Cheers Jim.

I actually did do out last night for a short test drive and the rev counter now appears back to normal.

Very nearly popped yet another post up about gearing.

I had a long dig through a couple of years of Mechanics Handbooks on the forum to try and find all the gear ratios for the ML5 gearbox.

I cannot remember how many revs it used to do at 30mph in 3rd. It was showing 1750rpm.

I think that’s about right.

I found another article that said they do 31mph per 1000rpm in 5th.

I’d like to try and find the ratios so I can calculate some various speeds in certain gears with the tyre sizes I have.

Any ideas?

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by CitroJim »

Rhothgar wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 09:42
I had a long dig through a couple of years of Mechanics Handbooks on the forum to try and find all the gear ratios for the ML5 gearbox.

I cannot remember how many revs it used to do at 30mph in 3rd. It was showing 1750rpm.

I think that’s about right.

I found another article that said they do 31mph per 1000rpm in 5th.

I’d like to try and find the ratios so I can calculate some various speeds in certain gears with the tyre sizes I have.

Any ideas?
Good news on the rev. counter Roger...

RPM sounds about right now...

I may have the ratio information buried deeply somewhere... I remember comparing an HDi 110 ML5 to that of a 2.1TD ML5 to see how interchangeable they were...

I recall the HDi had a slightly higher final drive ratio but the gear ratios were substantially similar...

I'll see what I can find...

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by Rhothgar »

CitroJim wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 09:46
Rhothgar wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 09:42
I had a long dig through a couple of years of Mechanics Handbooks on the forum to try and find all the gear ratios for the ML5 gearbox.

I cannot remember how many revs it used to do at 30mph in 3rd. It was showing 1750rpm.

I think that’s about right.

I found another article that said they do 31mph per 1000rpm in 5th.

I’d like to try and find the ratios so I can calculate some various speeds in certain gears with the tyre sizes I have.

Any ideas?
Good news on the rev. counter Roger...

RPM sounds about right now...

I may have the ratio information buried deeply somewhere... I remember comparing an HDi 110 ML5 to that of a 2.1TD ML5 to see how interchangeable they were...

I recall the HDi had a slightly higher final drive ratio but the gear ratios were substantially similar...

I'll see what I can find...
Cool.

I await with bated breath, Jim!

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by CitroJim »

Rhothgar wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 17:19
I await with bated breath, Jim!
Do keep breathing Roger as a search of my electronic archive has failed so I must extend my search to the attic... That may take a day or so ;) That's where all my Xantia manuals currently live!

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by Rhothgar »

Cheers. Jim.

I believe I might have the Factory Manual somewhere but that’s the problem. We have a room now at home which has been re-dedicated to storage. It’s over 200sq ft and you can barely move in there.

MOT now booked for next Tuesday morning so I will be driving it then on roads where I can get up to 50mph maybe 60 if conditions allow on some more local roads.

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by CitroJim »

All the very best for the MoT Roger :)

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by CitroJim »

I've dug out some ML5 gearbox ratio data I have Roger... Especially for you I visited my attic and dug through a load of manuals :)

Not for the HDi specifically but I know the HDi ratios are the same as the 2.1TD ratios except the final drive is a tooth or so higher...

Hope this helps a little to see how accurate the rev. counter is but do remember S2 speedos are a bit optimistic too ;)
ml5ratios.jpg

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by Rhothgar »

CitroJim wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 10:21
I've dug out some ML5 gearbox ratio data I have Roger... Especially for you I visited my attic and dug through a load of manuals :)

Not for the HDi specifically but I know the HDi ratios are the same as the 2.1TD ratios except the final drive is a tooth or so higher...

Hope this helps a little to see how accurate the rev. counter is but do remember S2 speedos are a bit optimistic too ;)

Image
Thanks ever so much Jim.

I was expecting to see ratios not the number of teeth too! Will make for an interesting exercise. I first look at it and thought, "What the hell? That's of no use!" but it's hopefully fairly obvious. Just like bike gear ratios. I'll let you know the inch gears... :rofl2:

Though you probably won't understand inch gears as you're very late to cycling. Ask an old boy!

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by Rhothgar »

On 195/65/15 tyres:-

The 2.1TD develops 28.35mph per 1000rpm.

If the final drive ratio is 17x69 then it would develop 30.11mph per 1000rpm.

And if 18x69 then it would develop 31.89mph per 1000rpm.

30mph in 3rd would be either:-

1952rpm on a 2.1TD or,

1837rpm with a 17x69 final drive or,

1735rpm with a 18x69 final drive ratio.

The more I think about it I am pretty sure it used to run at around 1750rpm marker (whatever that actually translated to in road speed - obviously slightly under).

Legislation allows for 10% + 4km/h in the EU. The Police usually allow 10% + 3mph.

Be nice to get a confirmation of actual final drive in HDi.

Of course, the interesting case in point here is that I believe the rev counter is now set right because I took the needle off and set it at 800rpm. Nothing in the gearbox or speedo drive has changed so the only thing I can actually adjust if needs be is the speedo needle.

I feel sure that it will be right now just with the rev counter arm adjustment. I will test it this afternoon.

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Re: Xantia 2.0HDi - Rev Counter idles at 2000rpm.

Post by CitroJim »

Rhothgar wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 11:38
Though you probably won't understand inch gears as you're very late to cycling. Ask an old boy!
Far too late to the cycling party for that Roger :? I know the principle but that's all... I'll be looking forward to learning all about it next time we chat via other means ;) :)