Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2016BlueHDI 150 Engine Repair light

[tony42]

Hoping someone has had this before This is coming up on the dashboard and car is in limp home mode. I have managed to clear it a number of times by no intervention. It has now come back and clears occasionally but is constantly coming back on. All garages are closed here because of covid and to be honest I would prefer to know exactly what is wrong or a general idea before hitting a garage.
I bought an ICarsoft diagnostics unit and the code that is coming up is P119F State: Permanent Fault Engine Oil Circuit, Signal Trop Haut (translated into english too high)

The start stop battery is at 76% and stop start not working. Charged battery to 100% and stop/start working fine again. It has now dropped back down to 76% and stop/start no longer kicking in.

Initially I thought it must be the MAP sensor, EGR sticking open or shut. Put Dipethane in to the diesel tank and a diesel additive. It seemed to be fine for the last week but has started happening again.

The car was serviced at 60000 there is now 65000 on the clock.

The car when service light is clear is running fine. When the engine fault light appeared first I was driving into a car park. The fan was running high and running on after ignition turned off. I took it that the car was in the middle of a regen.

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Tony

P119F 22 relates to: Deterioration of the engine oil: Rate of dilution of the engine oil excessive. I would be wary of putting any other additives into the tank as these can affect the particulate systems - that already have a specific additive mixed with the fuel for assisted regeneration purposes.

I don't have too much data on this particular engine variant (I believe for this year you will likely have the DW10FC or FD engine variant).

[Paul-R]

The oil (and filter?) were changed 5,000 miles ago What oil was used?

[tony42]

Thanks for the replies I got the car in the UK last August. It had had the 18K miles service done and the garage that sold it got their local garage to do a service again(this was a mistake as the last stamp hadn't been done by the Citroen garage).

I have Total oil so maybe I will do an oil change as I don't know what oil was used. I have done a lot of googling on the code and I remember one bit of info suggesting if DPF doesnt happen correctly or completely it can contaminate the oil so maybe there is a logic to that. The dipethane I added is a standard product over here for cleaning the intake/keeping diesel injectors cleaned but point taken no point in overdosing.

The car has/had a full service history with Citroen stamps and was just end of lease trade in. It is in perfect condition bodywise and the engine doesn't appear if it was ever worked on.

I can do a forced regen with the car diagnostics tool is that ok to do as a precaution or is their any risk attached? If ok to do it is it best to do it with the old engine oil in or out?

BTW as an aside I hate the notion of 18K oil changes my intention would be to be doing it between 7-9k. My normal run is 12km to work and back. The car has had a few runs up to Belfast and back and very little pottering around.

Will check engine variant to confirm but believe it is DWXX

[GiveMeABreak]

If you pop your VIN up (automatically masked) I'll be able to confirm.

You must use low SAPS oil in these and typically it should be fully synthetic.

As for regenerations - a forced regeneration is not advised unless needed - when the filter is quite clogged. This is because of the strain it puts on the engine and components when there is no cooling. Don't park it on dry grass or near anything flammable as the temperature of the exhaust will hit near 400-500 degrees C.

The engine ECU will already deploy one of several strategies it has for ensuring regeneration takes place - or if regeneration is interrupted. It keeps track of journeys and stores the info to help determine the type of driving conditions, miles since regeneration, and state of the particle filter etc.

If it gets to the stage where it cannot undertake a complete regeneration, it will flash a message up on the LCD display telling you there is a risk of the particle filter clogging. At this point you should go for a reasonable long run and keep the speed at least 40 MPH for 15-20 minutes after the engine has properly warmed up.

But given the message, I would certainly get the oil changed and get some decent stuff in there. I would leave the regeneration to the vehicle to deal with at this point.

[tony42]

Thanks Marc, Will do the oil change Monday when I am next off.

VIN VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

What is the sensor that determines that? Given the mileage of the car is this unusual to happen? I read a bit about oil dilution possibly caused by blow back. Have you come across that code before with this engine? Sort of amazed there is a sensor that can check this. If I understand correctly it is measuring oil viscosity or is it the flow?

Noted wont do a regen.

[tony42]

Doing a goggle the following site throws this up (Website is http://p119f-citroen.autotroublecode.com/ ) The info below is completely different to the Engine oil circuit message that appeared on my diagnostics
Is there a website with definitive codes? Will be doing the oil/filter change regardless and will check air filter to see if it was replaced or is filthy.

P119F Citroen Auto Trouble Code
P119F Citroen OBD2 specifically refers to the camshaft (cam) timing. In this case, if the cam timing is over-retarded, the engine light will be illluminated and the code will be set.

P119F Citroen Possible Solution:
The crankshaft sensor signals the fuel injection computer or the ignition control when the cylinders are firing. This causes the ignition coil to provide a spark and the injector to inject fuel into each cylinder at the right time.If either sensor isn't working correctly, the car will run rough and the engine will be less efficient. In later car models, the car's computer can usually keep the vehicle running, but the engine warning light on the dashboard goes on to warn the driver.

P119F Citroen Trouble Repair :
With P119F Citroen code so start with the basics like a fuel pressure and fuel volume test. Or, you can start on the electrical side by doing a voltage drop on both the power and ground connections for the fuel pump. Some shops are reporting corrosion on the fuel pump ground that reduces power and fuel pressure.

[GiveMeABreak]

Take all those internet codes with a shovel of salt - in many cases they are not correct as they don't relate to this engine.

I would give that site a wide berth - I mean they are even saying that this code relates to a Traction Avant which was made in 1934..... Really.... considering OBDII codes weren't really around until 1996 in the US and from 2004 for Diesels in Europe (earlier rudimentary codes excepted).

There are standard OBDII codes and then there are constructor-specific codes that are unique to the engine / Engine Management ECU and any customisations made by the constructor. Even the standard OBD codes can vary slightly from one engine variation to another.

As this is a later engine, I can't get you the exact PSA definition as there are hundreds of newer codes introduced with this model

[tony42]

'Take all those internet codes with a shovel of salt - in many cases they are not correct as they don't relate to this engine'

Yes that would accurately describe my feeling any time I do a google search on them. Hope the ICarsoft is throwing up the right code, I went for it as the ideal of messing something up big time whilst playing with a Lexia scared me off. If it is just the oil it will hopefully be an easy fix with no underlying problem causing it.

.

[GiveMeABreak]

I'll send you a PM about this Tony.

[tony42]

THanks Marc got the pm's my engine is a DW10 according to my local car parts guy who supplied the oil and air filter. I didn't cop that he didn't give me the last two digits to confirm the exact engine type

[GiveMeABreak]

Got that info now Tony from your VIN - you have the DW10FD variant, and I've PM'd you concerning the other matter.

[GiveMeABreak]

So just looking at this fault specifically, you can see that the engine oil alone is enough to trigger this fault (noted in the suspect areas at the bottom).

Also, as you can see that whilst this fault is active it will prevent regeneration from occurring whilst driving and also from any forced regeneration using a diagnostic tool.

So if you suspect the wrong type of oil has been used previously, I would start with getting that flushed out and replaced with the right type Tony.

Fault P119F 22: Deterioration of the engine oil: Rate of dilution of the engine oil excessive. This means the estimate of the rate of dilution of fuel in the oil is above the calibrated threshold (Higher than 10 %).

Conditions for Fault: Engine Running

Conditions of disappearance of the fault: The following conditions have to be met:-

• After switching the ignition off and then back on
• Driving for 5 minutes

Down-grade modes if fault present:

• Limitation of performance
• Inhibiting of starting of the forced particle emission filter regeneration
• Activation of the cruise control or speed limiter function impossible
• Inhibiting of regeneration of the particle emission filter while driving
• Inhibiting of the sport mode
• Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine
• Deactivation/cut-off of the cruise control or speed limiter.

Engine management Lamp: "SERVICE" warning lamp

Possible Symptoms Noticed:

• Engine hesitating, cutting out
• Lack of power
• Starting problem
• Absence of automatic stopping of the internal combustion engine
• Deactivation/cut-off of the cruise control or speed limiter
• Activation of the cruise control or speed limiter function impossible
• Exhaust smoke
• Fluid leak/smells (diesel fuel, oil, etc.)

Suspect Areas:

• Engine oil
• Electrical harnesses
• Connectors
• Particle filter differential pressure sensor
• Additive pump

[tony42]

Thanks Marc! Definitely a few things to go on. As I explained in the pm looking at the oil with dip stick it looks very clean and ties in with oil change done at the specified time. I changed out the air filter as it was easy to do and also easy to see if they had neglected to do that. It was dirty underneath at the intake but definitely a new filter and recent fit. Magically after clearing that out fault has cleared and all appears fine but that has happened before. The car runs really well no signs of any abuse or damage. Will give it a good run today and if I am getting the fault again will change oil asap just in case. Just couldn't see where the oil filter was I suspect it might be accessed from underneath the engine? what a PITA. Thanks for all the documents and the info above. Will see what happens but at least with the fault code and suspect areas it doesn't seem to be disasterous thankfully.

[GiveMeABreak]

Here's the parts diagram showing the oil filter Tony, item (2):

Click Image to magnify