605 2.1td auto box issues

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Mark Graham
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605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by Mark Graham »

Hi all!

Got an issue with the auto box on a 2.1td 605 ive just bought -

it seems very reluctant to change up a gear, it will hang onto 2nd gear until well over 30mph for example.

I was told by the previous owner that a gearbx oil change is due and he did supply the correct grade of atf for the job. There is also an oil leak coming from the gearbox area so looks like i am goung to have to do the seals too and probably take the gearbox out to do it...

Is there anything else i should do while i am changing the oil?

I have been trying to get the gearbox filter and i am now really confused to what gearbox is in the car, nobody seems to be able to source a filter. one source thinks is a zf gearbox, another a asin gearbox..

Any help would be appreciated!

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white exec
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by white exec »

Mark, post your VIN, and we can see exactly which box is in the car.
Almost certainly a ZF HP18.

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Mark Graham
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by Mark Graham »

always happy to support the forums!

My VIN is VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Thanks in advance!

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xantia_v6
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by xantia_v6 »

Some general points (which I believe to be applicable to your car...).

There will be a cable connecting the throttle to the transmission, often called the kick-down cable. The adjustment of this cable directly affects the shift points, and you can't always rely on the official procedure for adjustment on an old car, as you don't know if the cable has stretched, or perhaps an incorrect cable has been fitted. Slackening the cable a little should reduce the speed at which the 3-4 shift occurs.

It is very unlikely that changing the fluid will fix incorrect shift points, I am not saying that you shouldn't change it, but it probably won''t help with that problem.

The 4HP18 may have a fly-screen type filter that generally only requires cleaning, not replacement (I am not 100% sure about this model).

If your transmission is leaking, take the trouble to clean it up and identify the source of the leak before tearing into it. The leak may be easy enough to fix without removing the transmission, or it may require serious surgery.

One of the common failure of the 4HP18 transmission is the governor seals (which are internal to the transmission) causing an internal leak and loss of hydraulic pressure within the transmission. The governor seals can be replaced while the transmission is still in the car.

Mark Graham
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by Mark Graham »

awesome, that is a huge help!

i am lucky to have access to a pretty good mechanic in the form of my dad. As soon as the current lockdown is over ill get the car in and get it sorted. ive found a youtube showing the governer seals so ill look at doing them too.

thanks again :-)

GoceKU
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by GoceKU »

I've had similar problems with 4HP20 in my 605 3.0 V6 someone before me had change the ATF with dexron III but those gearboxes use only dexron II i did couple of flashes and it got better but was never perfect, they have a dipstick, check you may just be low on fluid if you have a leak, they commonly leak on the axle seals

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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by Armidillo »

Hi again Mark - missed this thread earlier. xantia_v6 is right - there is a small easily accessed filter, which can be cleaned and reused - rarely needs replacement. The filter hides under a cover held in place by 3 little bolts - 10mm heads I think - and is positioned at about the lowest point of the gearbox case. It is not very big - only about 3" across.

You get more fluid out by removing this cover, and then the filter, than by removing the official drain plug, so be prepared - it tends to spray out! Once the cover's off and the flow has subsided, a pair of pliers will usually be all it takes to get the filter out.

If the previous owner has supplied Dexron II then I would only use Dexron II fluid - not something such as Dexron III which claims to be backwards compatible. Plenty of people will claim that there are satisfactory substitutes, but why take the risk? Mine is still going strong at over 200,000km, and AFAIK has only ever been run on Dex II. I do try and change it fairly often (at least every 20,000 km), as you only get out part of what's in there. Refill should only use about 2 litres - there is a dipstick, and you can fill it (using a long skinny funnel) through the dipstick hole. Engine should be running.

On the other hand, if your PO has been using something different, then it may be best to continue using the same stuff unless it's obviously doing harm.

Cheers

Alec

PS to GoceKU - if you have a very late 605 with a 4HP20 box, then you should not let Dex II or Dex III anywhere near it. The correct fluid for a Zf 4HP20 is Esso or Mobil LT 71141. Are you sure you don't have a Zf 4HP18? If so then I agree with you about using Dex II.

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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by GoceKU »

The car was 1996-1997, there was a plat on top of the box, but now when you mention it, it might been an 18 i know i had 4hp20 on the 3.0 24v 60 degree v6 they both are bad gearboxes in my book, those cars need a manuel.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Mark has a 4HP18, not an HP20 for reference.

Mark Graham
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by Mark Graham »

Update -

Ive changed the gearbox oil and it is a lot smoother... the oil was really dark and looks to be long overdue.

I still need to sort the kick down cable. Does anyone know if this is a job easily done at home? Or can anyone recommend a specialist near swindon?

Thank

GoceKU
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by GoceKU »

i've used an electrical wire clamp, used for connecting two electrical cables with small screws, to fix my cable, it broke near the ball at the end, it lasted 3 years before that car got smash by a dump truck

Armidillo
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by Armidillo »

Forgot to mention - according to a local Peugeot specialist, all the 605's sent to Australia arrived with the throttle cable very loose - far too much free-play. Adjustment was listed as part of the pre-delivery service. Mine was 14 years old when I bought it, and that adjustment had never been done!

The result was that the car was very sluggish (but had good fuel economy), and I drove everywhere with the accelerator flat to the floor. Kick-down didn't work at all, so really the opposite of your problem.

Never had to adjust the kick-down cable, but throttle cable adjustment was very easy - might be worth starting there!

Cheers

Alec

PS - have you changed all the fluid? I've never done a complete flush, but just drained and refilled several times (drove it between changes to mix the old and new fluid) until the fluid being drained was sufficiently clear. As it only takes about 2 litres each time, and Dex II is pretty cheap compared to some other ATF grades, this isn't a huge expense.

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white exec
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Re: 605 2.1td auto box issues

Post by white exec »

Hi Mark,

There is kick-down cable adjustment data here, in the 2.1 auto XM publication, which shared engine/gearbox types with the 605:
viewtopic.php?p=590278#p590278

Go to XM S2 in the table, and click on 2001.
Download the XM_Xantia_Synergie booklet (pdf).
See printed page 198 for auto box HP18 kickdown cable settings.

Hope helpful.