Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

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Andle
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Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by Andle »

Hi all,

I'm reaching out to fellow members for some guidance & help. Been away for a while due to family issues.

My Picasso Xsara doesn't start well. Stinky white smoke out the back if started immediately, with the symptoms of chugging/rough starting (it's as if one cylinder is not 'firing').

However - if I put the key in the ignition and leave it at the pre-start position - and leave it for say 12 mins before I 'kick it over' - the puff of white smoke is brief, plus the engine seems to start much better (with only momentary chugging). It's as if something is getting a chance to prep or 'warm up' a bit before starting.

Either way - the engine sounds like a model T-ford (tappet fest).

I'm asking if there is a friendly member near Camberly/Bracknell, that would be kind enough to put the car through a diagnostic procedure - to establish what might be logged. I can afford to buy a crate of beers and give you a shout out on the forum.

If you look at my posts - I try to contribute to the commuity - drilling down to specifics & sharing what I know. Hope someone can help.

Warm regards,

Andle.

Picasso Xsara
1.6 HDI VTX
92 bhp
9HXC
DV6TED4
2007
90,000k
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Have a look at the list of members here:

viewtopic.php?t=56452

Scroll to the bottom for a link to the map showing locations. Contact anyone near you with a Private Message / email (if they have allowed this), but be aware not all the members are as active as others, so a reply may be a while.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by GiveMeABreak »

As per parts info, but be aware almost every HDi engine I have dealt with has a glow plug error - but these shouldn't prevent it starting unless they are all shot and in freezing temperatures.

Hera are the parts you wanted:
Glow Plugs.PNG
Beru plugs (1), Part: 5960F9, £24.91 from Citroen inc. VAT
Glow Plug Relay (4), Part: 598140, £74.21 inc. VAT
Sharkie
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by Sharkie »

Check & replace glow plugs before anything else
Andle
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by Andle »

There is another symptom.

When the engine is running (especially as it warms up) - it sounds ‘cantankerous’.

It sounds like one of the old model T - wind to start motors.

Either its the tappets, valves or something of the sort.

Could anyone tell me if this might be a symptom of a defective crank sensor?
ekjdm14
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by ekjdm14 »

Sharkie wrote:
04 Feb 2020, 19:45
Check & replace glow plugs before anything else
Bad advice for an HDi, for one thing they barely use them except for emission control/extreme (-10c) cold starts. For another, they are prone to the tips snapping off if an inexperienced/ill prepared person jumps in to replace them & this can write off an engine.

If it was an XUD or DW8 then sure, replace the GP's with some decent Beru ones, but Direct injection diesels require little in the way of pre-heat in normal UK temperatures.

From the sound of things, if it's tappety it could be a symptom of collapsing hydraulic lifters maybe caused by blocking/blocked screen in the vacuum pump (don't quote me on that, I don't know the oil flow path through the head, but given the 1.6's known issues if these screens are left in place it seems possible).

Another possibility is that the sound you're hearing is injector blow-by, remove the engine cover and listen/feel for combustion gases "chuffing" past the injectors. Sorry I'm not closer or you'd be welcome to a Diagbox session.
Sharkie
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by Sharkie »

Any modern diesel can start without plugs even sub zero, but with new injectors and new pump. As things age, injectors don't atomize fuel as well which leads to missed/late ignition in cylinder esp. on cold and wet days.
Andle
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by Andle »

I am seriously confused by the conflicting information I keep reading about glow plug initialisation:


Some say they ONLY come into play in sub zero temps.

Vs

Others say its more complex & is managed by the onboard computer.


These two views constantly come up against each other on every glow plus post.

Is there any way to settle this once and for all & to find out what actually happens? Does the ecu ever use glow plugs in warmer weather - if it judges they are needed?

What’s really going on?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Please keep your related posts together - your glow plug question has been answered here on your other thread, so please direct further specific questions on glow plugs there:

viewtopic.php?p=648366#p648366
Andle
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by Andle »

Okay - I need help with diagnostics. Anyone out there willing to help a fellow member.

I’ll return the favour with beers of your choice.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by GiveMeABreak »

In case anyone hasn't already mentioned it in another of your threads, we have a member list here of Diagbox / Lexia / PP2000 owners who have offered help:

viewtopic.php?t=56452

A link to a Google map is at the bottom of the list. Clicking this will show you all the members on the map. Select a suitable on and send them a Private Message via the links on the main list. Not all are active all the time, mind.

Failing that you can buy a kit yourself for anything around £100 ish plus you will need a suitable laptop and some PC knowledge.

A dealer charges about £90 ish for a single diagnostic session. So see if you can get a member to help you first using the resources I mentioned.
Andle
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Re: Diagnostic - Picasso Xsara

Post by Andle »

On the advice of Hell Razor,

Took her into PTS Developments Woking. Met Marc - who made a great first impression.

He plugged in his diagnostic machine - and found a glow plug issue flagged up. Nothing else flagged at glance.

So - i've booked her in - couple weeks time. Lets see what happens.

Injector is loose - i suspect my gearbox is low on oil or the turbo is going. I hear an unhealthy whine when I disengage the gear to change up.

This forum is truly an outstanding resource for the ordinary chap trying to get by.

I'm very grateful for everyones help in chasing down these issues & guiding me well.

Andle.